Strange thoughts about Wonderland (Silly thread)

Discuss the games (no level solutions or off-topic, please).

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billy bob
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Post by billy bob » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:41 pm

Just thought of a good one:

When you go on a trampoline and land on water or lava you should sink,
but instead for no apparent reason they go up and explode....

Why does this happen?

(Yay seven pages!)
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dlcs18
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Post by dlcs18 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:41 pm

Why does the Kaboom!'s fuse stay the same length all the time until it gets restricted to one tile or hit a Stinker/Barrel?
I mean... fuses are there to go off when a certain time has passed... :lol:
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Post by Emerald141 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:58 pm

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Post by Marinus » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:48 pm

Good question Matt! :D

Emerald, maybe it's not immaterial, only invisible. 8)
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Post by mqdar » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:23 pm

Marinus wrote:Emerald, maybe it's not immaterial, only invisible. 8)
Or maybe that it's immaterial is the point. It's absolutely nothing, and so everything that collides with it is completely absorbed in it. :lol:
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Post by gameboy991 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:36 am

Cbloopy-I don't know what you mean when you say that wee stinkers can't follow you past the red arrow exits in WA. In the adventure "Sunken Paths"(I think that's what it's called), in the original WA, there are two or three areas to the adventure where you have to guide the wee stinker through the swamp. :roll:

Also, I have a couple of questions of my own:

:arrow: In the original WA, there's a sign that says,"Wondertown: three stinkometermiles." Then there's a sign that says,"Forever forest: one-half stinkometermile." However, considering the distance between the signs and their destinations, Forever Forest is MUCH farther away. How is that possible? :?
:arrow: If Z-Bots detest getting wet with water, how do they detest when it comes to lava? :o
:arrow: And lastly, If the Kaboom!s on WA MOFI are friendly, then why are they not in WSW? :shock:
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Post by Qloof234 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:47 am

gameboy991 wrote: :arrow: And lastly, If the Kaboom!s on WA MOFI are friendly, then why are they not in WSW? :shock:
Talk to them, if I remember correctly, the Chief says it's because they wanted to be less destructive and to help protect Wonderland. Something like that.
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Post by Marinus » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:59 am

I don't know about Stinkomiles, meters or yards, but about z-bots and lava/water, see the attachment.

Edit: Darshan, maybe you're right, but only in Wonderland. In real life bullets, firebullets, laserbeams..... everything goes through a vacuum. Or you may talk about a black hole, but then no stinker can stand only one tile next to it. 8)
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gameboy991
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Post by gameboy991 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:37 am

Talk to them, if I remember correctly, the Chief says it's because they wanted to be less destructive and to help protect Wonderland. Something like that.
I know that. But he also said:
We moved here because 1: We like the weather here! (:roll:) and 2: We thought we could learn to be calm and not "blow our tops"
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Post by Qloof234 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:44 am

...That's exactly why they're friendly. :lol:
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Post by gameboy991 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:51 am

Yeah, but that doesn't explain why they were still very mean in WSW. What I'm getting at is that they moved to Fire island BECAUSE they wanted to learn to be calm. But the question is, why did they still blow up AFTER they landed at Fire Island's shores?

Oh, and Marinus, that didn't really explain anything, but it DID give me a new idea for a question-
:arrow: Where do enemies come from when they appear out of warp gates? :?
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Post by Marinus » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:57 am

I don't know if it explained something, but it shows that Z-bots don't have any difference betwen water and lava. They explode at exactly the same way either if they go over water or over lava.

I guess everything in Wonderland is made of air, and everything that's been destroyed is changed into air, just like a growing tree changes air into wood, and burning wood is changed into air. So I guess a generator/warp gate creates things out of air.

Just a silly idea but I can't think something better. :roll: After all this is the silly thread. :lol:
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Post by Muzozavr » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:24 am

The deep wall is neither immaterial nor invisible nor a black hole. It's not invisible, it's transparent. And perfect transparency is a lot like invisibility.
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Post by Marinus » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:33 am

Muzozavr wrote:And perfect transparency is a lot like invisibility.
That means: not quite exactly the same. So what's the difference?

I think a perfectly transparant, and perfectly clean window glass would be invisible to me.
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Post by cbloopy » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:10 am

Marinus wrote:
Muzozavr wrote:And perfect transparency is a lot like invisibility.
That means: not quite exactly the same. So what's the difference?
Transparency implies light passes through the object. Invisibility simply means you can't see the object, and transparency can be one reason why, but it's not the only possible reason. Other reasons could include camouflaging/cloaking, shrinking down to microscopic size, etc.

[edit: and depending on how you define "perfect transparency", that doesn't necessarily mean invisibility. For example, even if a material doesn't reflect or absorb any visible light, light passing through the material can still be bent due to refraction, making it possible to detect the presence of the material by eye. Or consider sunlight being dispersed by a prism to a rainbow. Or take a more extreme example of a transparent material that polarizes light, then if you are wearing polaroid sunglasses you'd be able to see the material.]
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Post by Marinus » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:33 am

I see. Every monkey is an animal, but not every animal is a monkey. 100% transparant is always invisible, but invisible is not always transparant.

However,
Muzozavr wrote:It's not invisible, it's transparent.
That's what I don't understand.

About definitions of "transparant" and "invisible", that's a good point.

Does transparant only mean, not absorbing or reflecting light, or also not changing the direction of lightbeams?

Does invsible only mean that you can't see the matter, or also that you can't detect the presence of that matter by eye?

According to your definitions even air is visible.
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Post by Muzozavr » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:26 pm

(Initially I actually wanted to rip a dialog from Neon Genesis Evangelion ( :lol: ) but it'd make even LESS sense. :shock: It's 600 meters wide but only 3 nanometers thick... and anyone who watched NGE knows what I'm talking about. So I just said it's transparent)

What I think it means:
(Fully) transparent: not changing direction of light beams, therefore we can't even detect it.
Invisible: can't see, can potentially detect it.

So, something transparent we could probably see IF we'd be able to detect it with our eyes, but we can't. It's perfectly transparent.

Air is invisible because we can't see it, DUH!

Thing is: perfect transparency is one way to achieve invisibility, but there are others, such as an object being too small for us to see, or the object perfectly blending into the background. (chameleons, for instance)

And, actually, forget about it. Unless it's some futuristic material, we'd see the edges anyway. :(
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Post by Emerald141 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:33 pm

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Post by Muzozavr » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:15 pm

1 and 2: the barrier is protected by the same futuristic material that deep walls are made of. :lol:
3: The snow comes from above, DUH... :lol: :lol:
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Post by Emerald141 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:00 pm

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Post by Muzozavr » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:33 pm

There are tiny holes in the floor and the snow falls through. Stinkers (and therefore we) don't see it because they're too big to notice tiny holes like that.

(Yes, I know Alt-X won't show them, it's not a perfect visual rendition of the "real" Wonderland world, OK? :lol: )
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Post by Marinus » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:52 pm

Beside that, in Wonderland the temperature is always above 273 degrees Stinkelvin, so the snow melts. :lol:

I'm aware the "invisible talking" is becoming a bit off topic because it has not much to do with Wonderland, so if it's bothering someone, please tell me, and I'll start a new topic. [Edit: I made a new topic in the meantime: http://pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=194593#194593 ] On the other hand I think such physical phylosophical talking just for fun, does fit pretty well in this "strange thoughts.... silly thread" :D

Muzo, your definitions of invisible and transparent seem quite logical to me. And indeed, then air is invisible, but not transparent, for it's to be detected by eye.

But what about fog? You think you see something but if you come closer there's nothing.

A perfect mirror? You see something "behind" the mirror, but not the mirror itself.

A 100% white (or a different colour) surface which reflects all light the same in all directions? You see a white light (or a different colour) but not the surface itself.

A 100% black surface? You see..... nothing.

I think these things are not transparent. they all are to be detected by eye somehow, but are they (in)visible?
Last edited by Marinus on Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by cbloopy » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:00 pm

Marinus wrote:According to your definitions even air is visible.
Well yes, there are a number of examples I can think of. How about the fact that you can see the sky is blue? :wink:

Also, your definition on "fully transparent" still neglects other ways a material may affect light. For example:
  • a material could absorb a small amount light without changing its direction, make it possible to detect the material by eye because it appears dimmer than the surrounding vacuum, even though you could still see through it.
  • a material could absorb visible light at different strengths in different parts of the spectrum, causing the color of the light to change.
  • a material could affect the polarization of light, making it possible to see the material if you're wearing polaroid glasses
Including all these criteria, and you soon get to the point where almost nothing is fully transparent. :wink: :lol:

Anyway, I'm just having fun with the ideas of invisibility and transparency, let's get back on topic.
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Post by Emerald141 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:07 pm

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Post by dlcs18 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:17 pm

Emerald141 wrote: :arrow: On the WSW map, there's a great chasm at the southern entrance to the Void with no bridge across it. Yet the gang's path travels over it?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
They probably went over a tiny bridge that can't be seen from the map. :P
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Post by Marinus » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:03 pm

let's get back on topic.
Yes, let's.
OK, sorry :lol:
Invisible talking here: http://pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=194593#194593
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Post by Emerald141 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:36 pm

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Post by cbloopy » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:43 pm

:arrow: If ice is next to water, why doesn't the water freeze or the ice melt?
I think it's clear that in the world of Wonderland, ice is a more magical thing then merely very cold water. You could for example Brr an ice float on water and have it remain on the water indefinitely (if undisturbed), a feat which not even a Brr iceblock can replicate (except for Brr from IceFlowers).

I'd say that all ice in Wonderland are actually the manifestation of a localized magical source of coldness. Because it draws on magic, it can stay cold indefinitely, and it's the resulting coldness that causes the surface to ice over.
:arrow: FireFlowers have the ability to shoot fire out of their mouths, which must mean they can produce fire on the inside. Yet they can't stand having it touch their skin?
I think this one has been asked before. Two possible answers:
  1. it's not that strange for something to be harmful on your skin but benign inside you. For example, the acids in your stomach (usually) don't bother your stomach, but if it was on your skin, it'll burn your skin bad (after all, you digest meat with it!).
  2. Perhaps the fire is actually the result of a chemical reaction with air. Meaning the fireball doesn't actually ignite until it's come out of the FireFlower's mouth and has time to react with the air.
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Post by cbloopy » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:49 pm

Emerald141 wrote: :arrow: What's the point of chairs in WA if you can't sit in them?
That's a good one. Though we do know that Stinkers are perfectly capable of sitting (it's one of the animations available for Stinker NPCs in the Editor).

I guess with the fate of Wonderland in your hands, it's perfectly reasonable that you're not allowed to just sit on your behind while the rest of Wonderland suffers. :wink:
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Post by MyNameIsKooky » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:34 pm

Q: What happens to Stinky when he goes into the exit?

A: He goes to the Director's room to get told if he did well.


Q: Why do Kaboom!s always follow walls?

A: Kaboom!s think following walls is fun.


Q: In WSW, why didn't the gang just walk around the Void?

A: The gang thought the Void was pretty, so they went in.


Q: Why do Coilys bounce around for no real reason?

A: They have nothing else to do.


Q: Why does the gang just walk in intense situations instead of running?

A: Their feet hurt after wearing shoes 24 hours a day.


Q: What happens to a level after it is finished?

A: The level begins its "Self Destruct" sequence.


Q: Why doesn't anyone in the gang jump?

A: The ground is much more interesting if you're on it long enough to take a good look at it.


Q: Why are some Chompers different colors?

A: Some Wee Stinkers got bored and painted them.


Q: Why do Spikeyballs change direction when they come close to a wall?

A: They don't want to dent their thorns.
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