New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

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Muzozavr
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New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Muzozavr » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:15 pm

Suddenly, out of nowhere, a new Muzozavr level appears!

BOOOOOOOOO! :lol:

I had this idea for a long time and never got around to using it, then I slowly fell out of the game, then I was too busy to do much of anything here... but it's Halloween, and everybody is entitled to one good puzzle. :wink: There's some distant inspiration from an earlier Mark level, but it's so distant that I think even Mark won't recognize which level pushed my brain along this path... even after he solves this. It's that distant.

To make the mood better, this level uses a dlcs18 custom texture called "Haunted", which you can find here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13219

"Spooky scary skeletons
Send shivers down your spine..." (that famous Halloween meme song by Andrew Gold)

It looks like a simple enough puzzle, not much of a stinker at all, but as usual with my levels, there's a bit more to it than meets the eye. I tried to make it look as simple as possible, to a point that it feels almost Halloween-eerie that it's not working out the way you think it should. :wink:

Since you can't see the difference with custom textures: the bridge tile is 3-step. Yes, there's a reason for that. Good luck!
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Last edited by Muzozavr on Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
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TheoX
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by TheoX » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:31 pm

The texture link is broken!

I'll try and find time to have a go at this level too. No promises yet though, I'm working now and going to a Halloween party later. :wink:
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Muzozavr
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Muzozavr » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:31 pm

Apparently, the forum is weird and broke the link. It's not difficult to fix it yourself once you see what the forum software did to it, but just in case, I changed it. The link is fixed now. It looks weirder than it was before, but it actually works.

Have fun with the Halloween party!
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
Amnon
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Amnon » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:32 am

Wow, what a STINKER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you very much for this great level!!!!!!
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nasko222
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by nasko222 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:09 pm

cant solve the boulder scheme. :C. Im pretty sure the blue one has to go up inside the thingy cuz the white one cant be controled. But i tried :(
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Muzozavr » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:52 pm

Eeeeh, how do I give a hint that reveals what the level actually wants from you is much harder than what it seems like it wants from you if you're already struggling with the surface level?

First of all, just in case, I'll mention that the very top button (the blue one) has a box for it. So you don't need the sphere THERE, nor would you be able to get it there. Instead, it's the purple button that needs a sphere on it. And yes, you're correct, you can't have a regular boulder on that button.

What you're trying to do right now (if I understand you correctly) is achievable rather easily. Just don't collect the coins too early and you can sink the normal boulders into the water. The spheres can then go left/up/right on the buttons. With all the buttons pressed, you can then proceed to the end.

... except you can't actually finish. The green gate will get you on the way out! :o

It only looks impossible. But in order to solve the level and get out successfully, you have to re-think the whole thing -- including the boulders -- from scratch. Yes, the spheres do go on the buttons you think they do... but what else do they do along the way? And what do the normal boulders do? And how is this all related to a gate placed just out of reach?

Think about those things for a while... don't rush. This level is hard. :wink:

Come back if you need more help, which is not that unlikely... because even once you figure out the macro-plan of what the level ACTUALLY wants from you, it's not easy to find the right moves. But think about the macro-plan first.
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
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Lazy Loof
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Lazy Loof » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:07 am

Bump!

I know I am too late to solve this level, sorry! :oops:

I was too confused at first but finally found that one of the elements isn't needed at all... Thanks for this wonderful level, Muzo! :D
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rainbowmon
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by rainbowmon » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:29 pm

You're crazy, Muzozavr. You do absurd things in Wonderland Adventures, you beat a couple of levels in the original trilogy without Keys/Rainbow Coins, you make insanely tough puzzles... I don't think I'm ever going to be on your level of skill in these games.

All this to say: I'm *COMPLETELY* stumped.
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Amnon » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:16 am

Well I just did it again - what kind of help do you need?
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rainbowmon
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by rainbowmon » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:14 am

The indigo button is obvious. The purple button, I clearly need a link sphere on, and to get one on to it, I need to keep the other one in play. That means I need the boulders for the water above the red button. The issue is in the green button - I know I need to push something onto it in order to have any chance at getting past the green gate, but I have absolutely *NO IDEA* how to get anything up there.
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Amnon » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:21 am

That means I need the boulders for the water above the red button.
Everything else that you wrote is correct, but this is only half correct!
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Muzozavr » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:04 am

A nice hint, Amnon, but one that might also reinforce some wrong assumptions, so I'll write an additional one...

Certain objects might have more than one purpose. Just because a boulder or a sphere eventually lands into a certain spot... doesn't mean it's the only thing it has to do. So when Amnon says that everything else you wrote is correct... yes, but there's some additional stuff to be done with some of the same objects. Multi-use efficiency is required.

(Funnily enough, I kind of "trial-and-error"ed my way through designing the sphere/boulder locations that would work for this, so later I found out some of the moves in the solution I used could be simplified, making the specific path a little less convoluted than I expected. This is fine, though, because the overall plan remains the same -- there's only one approach to the big picture that actually works)
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
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Kamerson
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Kamerson » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:09 pm

That was an INSANELY tough level, but an insanely clever one, too! :stinkyhappy: Good luck, rainbowmon!
Hi, I'm Kamerson! I'm a pretty experienced puzzle gamer! Check out my Twitch channel where I have livestreams every Monday and Friday, sometimes playing the Wonderland games!

https://www.twitch.tv/kamerson
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rainbowmon
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by rainbowmon » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:38 am

...Yep. Still totally confused. I'm 99% certain that the thing I need to push onto the green button is one of the wooden boxes in the bottom right - which I'd need a link sphere to free. It's theoretically possible if I get them into the right positions, but doing that would seem to require a set of moves akin to the ending of RTW Deluxe W7L8 "Gateway to the Rainbow World," and even if I somehow do that, I still can never free the link sphere I put down there, resulting in being unable to push both the purple and yellow buttons. This puzzle has completely broken my brain. It's diabolical. And I haven't even figured out what the spikes are supposed to do (if anything at all). Clearly they're a hazard to be avoided both for me and my boulders and link spheres, but I feel like they're just... There. Pointless. Like there's no point where they can get in my way. There's some ingenious thing I'm totally missing, and I've no idea what kind of thing it is.
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Amnon » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:08 am

I need to push onto the green button is one of the wooden boxes in the bottom right
You mean the timer, not the button, then you are correct. You need to get down to the boxes anyway because there are two coins to take there.
which I'd need a link sphere to free.
You need the linked spheres for practically everything, but perhaps not where you think, or in the way you think.

Whatever you do, do not drown or otherwise destroy your precious blue spheres.

The spikes? Forget about them, just collect the coins carefully once everything else is in place.
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Muzozavr » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:41 am

RE the spikes: I originally had a different layout where the first spike (and the coin) was supposed to be a puzzle element you had to be careful with... it didn't really work. At all.

Like I said before, the design process for the layout (not the plan, which I knew from the start, just the layout) involved some trial-and-error, so by the time I noticed the spikes were actually completely pointless and I could've just not had them... well, whoops, I already got attached to the whole "spooky means spiky" idea and kinda just left them for the mood. In retrospect, simply walling that part off and not having these spikes/coins at all would probably be more visually elegant, but making a version B just for that alone felt really pointless.

As it stands, the only way you can mess up the spikes bit (other than, you know, accidental impalement) is by collecting these coins too early -- the top coin is actually a necessary blocker. Aside from that, there's no real puzzle to the spikey bit at all, so once you do everything else, you're free to collect these coins. Just be a bit careful to make sure Stinky's feet are alright. :wink:
There's some ingenious thing I'm totally missing, and I've no idea what kind of thing it is.
Well, you do have a few good leads. You're right that the green timer needs a box... and, while your specific idea of where to use the link spheres is wrong, you're absolutely right to recognize their importance. These overworked blue heroes do A LOT in this stage, a lot more than just pressing buttons...
and even if I somehow do that, I still can never free the link sphere I put down there, resulting in being unable to push both the purple and yellow buttons.
... and deserve a bit more gratitude than just getting shoved way to the bottom and being stuck there. :wink:

There's one other very important thing they can do for you without becoming irretrievable. If you can figure that out, you might also figure out what central lie is working overtime to steer you away from the solution. Misdirection is, after all, the art of lying with your layout by planting false suggestions, and the false suggestion I'm planting here is... pretty brazen.

Once you figure out where's the lie, the rest should become a lot easier. It might help if you try to imagine yourself breaking the level as much as possible, the way I did to a few official levels -- what's the absolute oddest thing you can try to do? What are the least likely things that you can try to pull off? One of those ideas might just be THE trick...
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
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rainbowmon
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by rainbowmon » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:13 pm

...No. No, certainly you can't mean for it to be what I'm thinking it is, I thought of it already and realized it's impossible, there's no way...

*boots up the game again*

...Wait a...

Oh.

Oh snap. If I can get my link spheres and boulders into the right positions, maybe I can actually...!

Edit: OH. MY. GOSH. I WAS RIGHT.

I realized it might be theoretically possible early on after realizing the positions of the Rainbow Coins, before I even asked for help the first time, but I eventually came to the conclusion it wasn't possible. When you said "What's the least likely thing you could possibly do?," though, that kinda told me to revisit that idea. A little while later, lo and behold... I did it.

That was seriously clever. Wow. Just wow. You never cease to amaze me, Muzozavr.
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Muzozavr
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Muzozavr » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:11 pm

:wink:

I really tried to make the level as clean-looking as possible to make the layout look simple and the red herring believable. Judging by your reaction, it seems to have worked quite nicely.

I did have to make ONE concession to reality (the 3-step bridge, which is needed for all real solutions I've been able to find, but makes little sense with what the level pretends to be), but otherwise, everything is very squeaky clean and looks exactly like it should. This wasn't always the case, of course -- while the initial plan, the "least likely" trick was always in my mind when I started designing this level, the original prototype was extremely messy (to say the least), and most of the refinements either looked awful or were impossible to complete. I'm quite proud of the eventual form it took, though. :lol:

Glad the attitude shift helped you get through!
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
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Mark
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Re: New Level (Advanced) -- Spooky Scary Stinker!

Post by Mark » Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:02 pm

This was AWESOME Muz! :D :D :D

And you're red herring was actually red. 8)

Took me over an hour to get there.

Thanks buddy! It was lots of fun! :D
Mark
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