Forum Suggestion? :)

[ann3120]

my collection of rambling pointless posts?

Hi Patrick,

That qualifies you to join Ramblers Anonymous. Welcome.

[Summerday]

I see the merit in both sides of this issue.

I have gotten really stuck on several puzzles and searched for hints that were unavailable. So, having solutions in one place is a great idea.

For the creators to also provide solutions, would indeed be a lot of extra time, and would take away from their making new levels. However, when a hint, solution, jpeg is offered, perhaps they could be gathered together and made available to forum members in whatever way is best for all. My opinion is that this data base would only be for user-made levels. The Wonderland game levels are nicely supported with added help when needed from forum users.

As to who would do the work, I would be willing to start the project - with help from all you experts out there.

On the other hand, asking for help in the forum is really wonderful. I was ecstatic when I placed a call for help on the forum and received a pm from malcdelsol. It is the kindness and help offered on this board that makes it a fun place to keep coming back to.

As to all of you who need no hints - You are definitely in the Genius category of Mensa.

Summerday

[Triana]

Well, I'm back here looking for solutions go levels and problems again, and still hoping a real "Hints/Solutions" section will be added.

I've read all the reasons NOT to do it, and want to comment on that.

I love puzzles, but to be honest, I'm not all that good at them... or maybe there are some tricks being used that I haven't run across yet. Dunno, but I don't put myself in the Mensa category. When I play, I tend to play for hours/days on end. Sometimes my brain works, sometimes it doesn't. Then I don't have another chance to get back to playing for sometimes 3 months, 6 months, or a year.

A player has two options here for getting help with custom levels...

1. ASK ...

Makes for massive amounts of postings, as each person has to ask individually.

You sometimes have to wait hours/days to get a response as the wise ones have to go back to the puzzle and re-figure it out, at which point you usually get ...

The vague "hint" ... or

A response in PM ... totally useless for anyone else looking for an answer.

And sometimes you get the best of both worlds ... wait for hours/days to get the vague hint in a PM, so you can ask again because you're still clueless.

And sometimes its just plain embarrassing to have to keep asking.

2. SEARCH ... Let me give an example...

I searched for help for one game today, trying all kinds of search options to find it. I've gone back to this puzzle numerous times over the past year and a half and can't get out of the first room (level done by Amadeus, "Who Slew the Stinker Roo?").

Doing a search, I got the following results:
"Who slew the stinker roo?": 1669 results
who slew stinker roo: 1767
who slew the stinker roo solution: 2426 results
who slew the stinker roo solution amadeus: 2407 results
Amadeus: 0 results
Amadeus!: 363 results (finally discovered his name had a ! after it)
who and slew and stinker and roo: 1 result (FINALLY!!!)

Keep in mind this is only some of the searches I tried... two searches resulted in between 3000 and 4600 results... can't remember what I searched for. Also keep in mind that every one of these results takes you to a page that has between one and hundreds of responses... guessing 75% of which is "chat", 24.9% of which is useful and/or interesting information in some way, .1% is the answer you're looking for. On to the next search result... and the next... and the next...

When I finally got the 1 result, this is the information I found:

Nine Clues to Unlock the Secrets of Roo Hall

1. How can I get Stinky out of the Dog House?
Instead of leaving through the yellow gate, try looking for another way out.

Thats kinda stating the obvious, and obviously I did the natural thing... I tried looking for another way out, every time I went back to that puzzle. This is what I meant by the vague "hint." The other 8 hints were probably great, but I couldn't get past the first one.

To give hints/solutions, or NOT to give:

While reading all of your responses to this thread, I noticed quite a few comments on three issues:
1. Whether or not its right to give a solution.
2. How giving solutions would slow down the "chat" on the board.
3. How much trouble it would be to add the solutions.

My response to those issues:

1. The only person to determine how much information he should have access to, or how he should use it, is that person. Its not up to the Mensa folks to determine that. If they want to figure the puzzle out themselves at all cost, they don't need to visit the solutions thread. But their ingenuity and intelligence would be greatly appreciated by those who don't possess those traits.

2. I think the chat is slowed down by the MASSIVE amounts of chat already there. Its soooooo easy to spend hour after hour looking for one tiny tidbit of information and never find it.

3. How much trouble is it to add? Go look at this:
http://pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... =solutions. She did a wonderful job on that btw. That was an awful lot of solutions in a very short period of time. It doesn't matter if a person wants to do videos, add pics, or just text descriptions. It ALL helps the person looking for help.

Current Level Solutions on Forum:

There is now a section called "Level Solutions", but there is no standard for how these are labeled, and if you do a search, it doesn't search that section, it searches the entire forum, giving the results shown above. You can look through each page of solution threads, but since they're not labeled logically, you're searching for naught. Whether its a question, or a hint/solution, it should be labeled the same, so that all info on that one level is covered in one place.

Why not something simple and obvious?
Filetype - Folder - LevelName (as shown on the Custom Levels menu in-game)
LVL6 - Amadeus - Who slew the stinker roo?

Clear Game Info in One Place:

Regarding learning how to create levels, general game info like what filenames run in each game, how to write up solutions, etc., there needs to be COMPLETE instructions in ONE place, preferably on the website, not the forum. There is way too much info here to find anything, and its all over the place. There are what, four Wonderland games now? Having not played for about a year, I am having a problem with .lv6 files. Coming to the forum I had no answer after numerous searches, and reading about 15-20 threads. The website gives very general information... all the rest of the needed information is spread out... major discouragement to the interested but clueless.

So what it comes down to is this...

People buy the game because they like puzzles, not because they want to spend hours/days getting help when they need it, and not because they want to "chat"... they want to play the game.

When I started this thread in the first place, I thought I was requestiong something reasonable and helpful. People jumped on it like I was suggesting robbing the Federal Reserve. Knowing that the frustration of getting help was going to continue, I quit coming to the board. My guess is that a lot of people don't "chat" because of the frustration of getting the needed help. Determine what someone else needs for them, especially when they're frustrated, and watch how fast they walk away. Frustration doesn't make people chatty, it makes them cranky!

Give people help when THEY feel they need it, and they'll be in a much better mood. Give them more information, and they'll feel like trying to create a few levels themselves, and subsequently passing on their new-found knowledge, textures, houses, and brand new levels worked on with loving care and determination.

I apologize for being so blunt about all of this ... but I really felt frustrated, again, coming here for info on a number of subjects. Its just not worth the time, especially when you'd rather be doing a puzzle. I suspect I'm in that majority of people who sign up, and don't come to "chat."

I realize that 99% of the chatters here are wonderful and helpful people who love the game. And I don't mean to be criticizing, as this board is friendly and NOT cliqueish. It just doesn't feel friendly when you're frustrated. I'm trying to give an insight into what others may be feeling and hopefully give the movers and shakers something to work with.

[uneekrose]

Triana welcome back to the forum. Take a look at this topic
http://www.pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13312

If you know who created the level just pm them if you can't find the level by doing a search. Most are more than welcome to help you. There are a few who could care less about giving hints or solutions or even fixing thier levels but they are few and far between.

Go to mette's website and follow her links to upgrade your game. I'm sure the forum has changed since you were here last. It's changed since I have joined. I've never had to wait for more than a day for a response for help. There's some great people on here who jump in when the level creator is on vacation or holiday.

Again welcome back.

[wonderlandlover]

Hello, Triana! I understand your frustration, especially about doing the search function. It's one of the reasons I suggested level-makers put the level filename in the body of their post, so that you could search for that specific level.

Some observations: First, I would say many of the creators on this forum, that are still here, made/make levels knowing that it generates chit-chat. Asking for solutions is part of the fun! If most people only came looking for solutions, and not participate on the forums, I think you would see a steep drop in the amount of new levels. I think Wonderland would start to go extinct.

Another thought is that there are now over 6000 custom levels. Some creators have made over 500 levels. If they had to take the time to write up their solutions for their levels, it would take weeks, if not months. Some people are no longer here. I just don't know how feasible it is to come up with solutions for such a wide-variety of levels.

Not that your ideas and concerns are not valid. I think if maybe this had been implemented from the beginning, it would have been much simpler. And Lillie wouldn't have to remember how to solve her 42nd level, if someone asks for help!

People are always willing to help with solutions, even if the levels are not their own. I don't think you'd have to wait several days to get one.

I hope you stick around, and get to know us. We really are a very friendly bunch, even if there are disagreements!

[Triana]

I understand the people are friendly and willing to help.

But I have to ask, does it make sense to answer the same questions repeatedly? On Mette's site, when she requested solutions for the regular game levels, the request was filled very quickly by anyone who happened to be working on them. Even just a simple paragraph would do wonders to help someone who's stuck.

And no, I don't think we should expect anyone to cough up solutions for their levels unless they choose to ... I'm saying if someone does a level, and found a way to solve particular problems, a simple paragraph, or more if they choose to, could be quickly done and thrown up.

And I think also very important... something that no one addresses...

We may be playing these old levels ten years from now... are there still gonna be people here ready and willing to help? Not likely. It would be nice if we could just grab that solution info in a zip file and save it with our game files.

[Erwin042]

3. How much trouble is it to add? Go look at this:
http://pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... =solutions. She did a wonderful job on that btw. That was an awful lot of solutions in a very short period of time. It doesn't matter if a person wants to do videos, add pics, or just text descriptions. It ALL helps the person looking for help.

Ohoh!!! HE wrote most of the solutions ! ! ! ! (me )
She put it on her website ! ! ! !

After work, I'm here behind my computer. And the forum is my homepage. So I read every possible new topic for help.
I played the game more than 3 times. And I read all topics after the game release.
When I knew how to make a written solution, I made my first. Then on playing more, I could write more solutions.
I made videos for the levels without a written one. Only Wakka Wakka 3 has no real solution yet.

I'm proud to be called 'Merlin'

[Liz Mayhew]

Triana - again I say why don't you ask if you need help? We're all too ready to offer help.

Also if you play levels, why not say you're playing and thanks to the level maker?

It does help to keep the wheels of creativity turning if we know people are out there enjoying our levels.

[tyteen4a03]

Hi folks,

thanks for the suggestions and comments.

I actually think the forum is getting large enough that maybe there is the need to explore its future a little bit. What sort of things would make it more usable, what sort of things would you like to see, etc.

I think a level database (sortable by creator, difficulty, etc, with clickable solutions, etc) would be a fantastic idea. One problem is that it would be a lot of work (basically somebody would need to go through the thousands of posts and copy/paste them into the appropriate spots, asign levels to creators, difficulty levels, etc).

Second problem is that I'm not planning on doing this myself - for one I really want to get crackin' on the next game project, rather than spend most of the time on forum programming, and more importantly, I'm not much of a web-programmer. I don't have much experience with it, which is why I've gone with a "tried and true" available forum package. But if someone were potentially interested in doing the programming/maintaining part (some of it for compensation, some of it volunteer based) the whole project might become a lot more doable.

I am likely going to be doing some minor redesigns on the main website this month (add a few new features), so this might be a good time to talk about general ideas of what you'd like to do with this forum to keep it growing, lively, and useful.

I'll just open the floor to suggestions - don't worry about if it can be done, just don't expect that it will be done either.

(as for not having all solutions on the main website - I feel that, given the cheat to skip levels, nobody is ever held back in the game, and hope that a few missing solutions will get people interested in participating in the forums - some of you have already agreed/disagreed with this idea, anyone else feel free to chime in)

Cheers,
Patrick

1.Mette can help you.
2.I can help you.

P.S:You are there OG!I think you will never visit the forum again.

[rescuefire]

tyteen4a03, if you notice the date of her post OG was not here recently. That post is from 2005

[tyteen4a03]

tyteen4a03, if you notice the date of her post OG was not here recently. That post is from 2005

Oh!I get it!