New feature suggestion

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:10 pm

How about a password (not compulsory) in the level editor which can be set when creating a level, then when it is loaded in the editor it cannot be changed, in essence it is read only, without the password.

This will open up new game ideas, such as challenges, perhaps championships and statistic tables, best times, best scores etc on a level and create little champion leagues.
The idea being when someone completes a custom level they can click something and it uploads there score,stats etc to some place, then if they visit a page they can find the top 10 scores etc for that level.

Most people in here would play fairly if such a feature were created now (uploading scores), sadly however some people might edit the levels and cheat (its the same with every game, damn those people using trainers (cheating devices to win online games in online servers) in Quake!)

Like the idea?

ol'gramma · Post by **ol'gramma** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:37 am

Not everyone on this forum plays for the same reasons.

I, for one, do not feel the need to compete for anything. I enjoy playing and making the games for the fun of it, and figuring out the puzzles, whether they be hard ...to a certain point....or just fun.
I do not play any of your levels, nor do I expect that you would play mine.

Then, your competative password protected levels need to be under a header/category that specifies this.

Who do you think you are, damning anyone for anything?

ol'gramma

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:40 am

Why the heck do you give me grief? I have played games with such features and they have worked excellently, the idea of password protecting levels if the author chooses was used in the finest click and move game ever created, Daisy's Garden 2.

I have known all along you don't like me, I could just tell these things, the facts are people cheat at games, and online games of all kinds will tell you, if there is something to play for, someone WILL cheat, heck probably 99% of people on here would not dream of it, but there is always someone, who will use what methods he can to get one over.

I run a trivia bot on IRC, and people there are so desperate to get in the top 10 they will use google to find the answers, my channel is key protected and I know everyone in there, yet still someone has betrayed me and I get spambots, despite its a private none listed channel, which means someone in there (and i talk to them all personally) has gone behind there mask and pulled one over, which is what would happen if top scores were online here, someone, probably a lurker would cheat.

And yes I know you dont like me, you dont like my levels, you dont like the way I am, and actually I do play your levels, a few days ago I made a post about one of them, the airport one, about how it made me have a dream about the game. You choose to make simpler levels, I choose to make Epic themed levels, you dont play mine, I do play yours, please dont make "who do you think you are" comments about me, for the simple fact you dont like me.

And to the people who do like my levels, I thank you for your kind emails and private messages of support. Also majic1 (hope I spelt that correctly), apology accepted.

When I saw the new reply icon thing and I saw your name, I just KNEW (even though I dont think youve ever replied in one of my posts) that you would be having a go at me, if I had started a thread called World Peace is great! you would have probably found a way to bash me down

ol'gramma · Post by **ol'gramma** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:09 am

I have known all along you don't like me, I could just tell these things

Maybe your attitude had something to do with it, right from the beginning.

There are many people on this forum with as many talents as you. They just don't tell everyone how great they are.

You have no right to damn anyone for anything, unless of course, you are God.

ol'gramma

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:10 am

actually while I remember, someone was asking about help in Mummy Maze deluxe, so i will post the link here, wouldnt want to create another thread for it.

Complete players guide for mummy maze deluxe:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~u4ia/bumblebee/mu ... .html#Mahu

Complete guide for Out of Order:
http://fourfatchicks.com/Walkthroughs/O ... /OOO.shtml

Both games are excellent, I strongly recommend you download/try both

Also Daisy's Garden 2, shareware is brilliant and I just know alot of you would love it: (has editor)
http://www.ib-burkart.de

The idea of it is you have to collect all the fruit and vege in a 2d scrolling environment full of dangers in the garden!

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:12 am

Maybe your attitude had something to do with it, right from the beginning.

There are many people on this forum with as many talents as you. They just don't tell everyone how great they are.

You have no right to damn anyone for anything, unless of course, you are God.

Please elaborate, on my attitude. Also when have I ever said anything regarding quality of my levels ever? in real life im real shy and I shy away from compliments.

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:14 am

Also when did I damn anyone? you don't think people would cheat at a game?

You mention my attitude from the beginning, well here is a link to my first posts:

http://pcpuzzle.com/forum/search.php?se ... &start=120

If you consider the words in those messages 'bad attitude' then I would love to know your views on Gangster Rap.

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:17 am

BIGZIPZ wrote:Please elaborate, on my attitude. Also when have I ever said anything regarding quality of my levels ever?

First off, may I say I have enjoyed most of your levels immensely. However...

Not flaming you here; just some personal observations.

Perhaps you need to reread this thread: http://pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=308

Referring to your own 3 towns level you said "...there is something brilliant about it..."

When I took time to correct you on the fact that Loof could be killed on the ice ride by one of the Scouges after you said it was 'perfectly safe' you replied, "DOH!" What exactly does your reply mean???

When majic said she thought some of your levels were unoriginal, (a comment I note she later retracted), you replied "Could you be anymore insulting?" I saw no insult in her comment.

You seem to take umbrage whenever anyone disagrees with you.

You assume in your original post in this thread that people would cheat. I think this is what is bothering ol' gramma and I have to agree with her on that point.

Granted, you started by saying, "Most people in here would play fairly if such a feature were created..." but you then go on to say, "sadly however some people would edit the levels and cheat..." Perhaps you just worded it badly and saying 'sadly however there is always a possibility some people would edit the levels and cheat..' might have been better.

On the original topic of locking the time limit, I don't see the point. As ol' gramma says, people play for various reasons. I doubt many actually play to get good scores. I personally gave up playing for high scores ages ago, I prefer the challenge of the puzzle itself, getting all the bonus coins, (sometimes the real challenge in a level), etc...

Placing locked time limits would also 'shut out' a lot of people from playing certain levels. Some people don't have 'twiddle fingers' like me

People can get put off with time limits. Some younger players would not be able to play, etc...

Also, at the end of the day, if you assume people will cheat, there is no point in having competions, is there?

And finally, the level editor is called a level editor because that's what it's for. Some people use it to help them make the harder levels a bit easier for them to play or to find that elusive coin they just can't find.

Just my 2 cents...

~OB

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:28 am

I didnt mean to lock the time limit, i meant to lock the level

and doh means well erm means something bad has happened to me, a little like Homer uses it in the Simpsons

When majic said she thought some of your levels were unoriginal, (a comment I note she later retracted), you replied "Could you be anymore insulting?" I saw no insult in her comment

It wasnt the unoriginal comment that upset me, it was the this level is not the standard I expect in this forum, message that got to me

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:31 am

Oops forgot this bit, a doh situation might be;

I build a wall in my garden and I shout out at the top of my voice, my wall is indestructable! then it would fall down and I might go DOH! hehehe

majic1 · Post by **majic1** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:48 am

Oh my gosh, I deleted that post because it was a very dumb & stupid thing to say - and now it's brought up again! YUK! I worded wrong what I was trying to say that night. In reality, I don't believe there are any "standards" expected by ANYone here (as is very obvious by some of my silly levels). As I said, it was a ridiculous & stupid remark, I deleted it, and I wish it could just be forgotten!!

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:51 am

it is forgotten, do you like any british comedy shows?

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:16 am

We actually thought about a password system. But we came to the conclusion that if people want to cheat they can cheat - and without the password system players can play with the game as they wish. With or without time-limit, editing the levels to remove "personal trouble spots", or trying to get the highest score possible.

I have my own personal playing style (with all computer games), but I quickly learned that it would be a mistake to impose that on others - hence the gradual inclusion of options such as "no time limit" and "unlock all worlds" (that I personally don't like using).

Oh, and please folks, play nice and keep the forum civil. Everyone is bound to have disagreements, no need for either party to get personal. Maybe avoid each other's posts for a cool-down period?

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:34 am

Another moment of tension in the Discussion boards huh?

At least this time it doesn't have to do with me.

Seems to me most of this is just a misunderstanding. I don't believe bigzipz was trying to imply that people would cheat here, but perhaps he didn't word it well enough. This miscommunication caused Ol'Gramma to be annoyed, leading to the "damning everyone" comment. But also, Ol'Gramma threw in the extra bit about never wanting to play bigzipz's levels and suggests that bigzipz would act the same reciprocally. This in turn annoyed bigzipz who then started this unfortunate discussion about Ol'Gramma not liking him, which might've been a little exaggerated (it seems Ol'Gramma was simply saying she didn't like bigzipz's level, and that's fine since it's unrealistic to expect a level that everyone would like in equal degree). This in turn leads to Ol'Gramma complaining about bigzipz's attitude as a response to bigzipz's discussion about Ol'Gramma not liking him.

And the conversation continued going downhill from there.

It seems clear that both sides took offense in some of what the other side said, though it seems in nearly all cases the offense is unintentional, miscommunicated, or perhaps due to the heat of the moment, harsher than necessary. Perhaps the two sides should just apologize to each other publicly or privately, make up, and move on.

-----------------

Finally, my 2 cents about bigzipz's original idea on this thread:

As I understand it, the idea is that if we were to do "tournaments" where everyone's scores are compared, it's important to have measures to ensure the integrity of the result. This is a given in any tournament, so I don't see bigzip's comment as trying to imply anything about the integrity of people in this forum. (Though I agree that it could've been worded better.)

That being said, bigzip's idea is hardly enough to guarantee integrity of reported scores. If someone wants to cheat, it's quite possible to just give out a score without actually ever solving it. Things like screenshots, and even the player's personal score file, can be faked (after all, bigzipz himself seems to have confidence in reverse-engineering the file format for the levels of some other game, and score files tend to be easier to reverse engineer since a list of scores is intrinsically less complex than a level). In my view, the only real way to ensure integrity is if the game records the exact solution (eg. your keystrokes and their timing) every time you play, and you submit that record of your play (presumably some kind of a file). That really still doesn't absolutely proved that you actually played, since again in principle someone could fake the file without actually playing, but this time, he/she would have to at least be able to solve the level for the moves to work out, since the record of moves can be verified by computer to see if it actually works.

So ultimately, there's always a factor of mutual trust involved with score comparisons. Technology can help make it harder to cheat, but it wouldn't be desirable if it also results in inconvenience for others, especially those not involved in the competition, which at this point constitutes a majority of people in the community.

And in any case, in practice, as noted by pretty much everyone here, for this forum most people are, at least as of the moment, more interested in creating level and playing levels non-competitively. So currently any discussion about tournaments and the like are not likely to attract much interest, so there's little case at this time for adding additional features to the game oriented to tournaments. Still, this is not unworthy discussion, since over the long term there will inevitably be fluctuations in both the actual members of the community and the members' interests, so what is irrelevant now might end up having relevance in the future.

ol'gramma · Post by **ol'gramma** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:52 am

LNS said:

But also, Ol'Gramma threw in the extra bit about never wanting to play bigzipz's levels

That is not what I said....If you reread, this is what I said:

I do not play any of your levels, nor do I expect that you would play mine

His are too complicated for me, and mine too simple for him.

ol' gramma

eeyore31 · Post by **eeyore31** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:36 am

BIGZIPZ wrote:
Complete guide for Out of Order:
http://fourfatchicks.com/Walkthroughs/O ... /OOO.shtml

Also Daisy's Garden 2, shareware is brilliant and I just know alot of you would love it: (has editor)
http://www.ib-burkart.de
The idea of it is you have to collect all the fruit and vege in a 2d scrolling environment full of dangers in the garden!

Thanks for the links Bigzipz,
I downloaded OutOfOrder, and need some guidence, this will help.
ALSO Daisy's Garden looks fun, I'll try it. I tried Happyland and got hooked on it!!!!! Other games help me think of new ideas to make Wonderland levels.....poor Stinky sure has been kept busy!!!!

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:41 pm

Yes out of order can be a nightmare at times, sometimes you stand there and think what do I do know, and then you look at the guide and the puzzle is not obvious at all!

Someone said that people could edit the files and cheat, personally I dont much understand the following from one of my scores file:

=n“M;xi ø ‚TêQ½µ
âž]f3òC
çO›È>r Î ·²]o/;d
Úb
/;d ² úoõÛl† ê b/;d ² º‰gø( ‚tc/;d â &y»".j
¥k%.j ò ¨Ásq/;d ø ß /;d @ ¿þ}–Ã´ à Û–3O“ f ‚Ü·k/;d ` ÂßPvÙÍx ¼ ãÍÙÍx ² ß0ÁDÀ ƒ F ^Œx'/;d
ž‡63/;d
õûÁëÖ/
WËBufC2
î]à/;d † 'Ç‰G/;d Þ0 '&ÖP:ºÐ *5 <Ô/;d Ü¶8 /;d † µØb/;d
ä0i/;d À ?õlÂÎw Ê

eeyore31 · Post by **eeyore31** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:48 pm

ha ha ha ha ha....well Bigzipz...........if that language was taught at school, I was probably in the back sleeping !!!!

I also downloaded 3 different programs that is SUPPOST to let me make my own games, they are all greek to me, too.

I just scribbled down the walkthrough for OOOrder....NOW maybe I can finish it, I would NEVER have guessed at what to do. I guess that's ONE of the many great things about Wonderland.....the answer is right there, staring me in the face, it's just a matter of time 'til I get it.

P.S. Check your e-mail.

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:55 pm

Often in OOO the solution is mind-bogglinglylylylylyly stupid

Return to the elevator area. This time take the path to the right. Pick up the reassuring notice to get the letters O and K.

That one got me for AGES, who would have thought to pull some letters of the wall :/
Then again I always get stumped in these kind of games.

Oh yep you didnt have to write the guide out, you could have used ALT + TAB like meeee, this game reminds me of a GREAT budget title for the pc and playstation, called Broken Sword, I strongly recommend this game, also as well as Daisys Garden 2, Mystic Marbles from the same website is brilliant too! you can make some real mind bending levels with that corker.

Another game I bought recently is Pocket Tanks Deluxe - brilliant stuff!

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:59 pm

Here is a shot from Mystic Marbles!

The idea of the game is to guide your marvel home but its easier said than done and requires quick thinking and fingers!

BIGZIPZ · Post by **BIGZIPZ** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:02 pm

P.S. Check your e-mail

Thanks

one quick question is Bulldozer freeware? I cannot find the game anywhere, I am thinking If I see the puzzle in a different format as bulldozer intended I may be inspired with the solution.

eeyore31 · Post by **eeyore31** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:54 pm

BIGZIPZ wrote:
Thanks one quick question is Bulldozer freeware? ......... If I see the puzzle in a different format as bulldozer intended I may be inspired

It's one game on a disc I have called 24 games for windows 95 (although it seems to work on my Me) It's pretty old. It's by Expert Software.

Dianna · Post by **Dianna** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:03 pm

OOOHHHH, there's a walkthrough for Out of Order? I sure could have used that several days ago -- would have saved me from all these unsightly bruises on my forehead from banging my head against my keyboard! I frequently had to resort to trying EVERYTHING, no matter how nonsensical it seemed. (Guess I could have done a search for a walkthrough, but I didn't consider that a little freeware game like this would have one.)

loof101 · Post by **loof101** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:27 am

eeyore31 wrote:
BIGZIPZ wrote:
Complete guide for Out of Order:
http://fourfatchicks.com/Walkthroughs/O ... /OOO.shtml

Also Daisy's Garden 2, shareware is brilliant and I just know alot of you would love it: (has editor)
http://www.ib-burkart.de
The idea of it is you have to collect all the fruit and vege in a 2d scrolling environment full of dangers in the garden!
Thanks for the links Bigzipz,
I downloaded OutOfOrder, and need some guidence, this will help.
ALSO Daisy's Garden looks fun, I'll try it. I tried Happyland and got hooked on it!!!!! Other games help me think of new ideas to make Wonderland levels.....poor Stinky sure has been kept busy!!!!

Is Daisy Garden 2 free?

loof101

Danell1975 · Post by **Danell1975** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:18 pm

Um, yeah, little help please. I was going to dl Daisy's Garden 2, sort of in German, I think.

I can't read a word of it. I am sure it downloads the same, but if the entire game is in German, how do I play it?

I'm from the midwest and have had the glory of visiting two other states in my weeee little life, German is like

Can I get it in English?

Ramonda · Post by **Ramonda** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:48 pm

Danell1975 wrote:Um, yeah, little help please. I was going to dl Daisy's Garden 2, sort of in German, I think. I can't read a word of it. I am sure it downloads the same, but if the entire game is in German, how do I play it?

I'm from the midwest and have had the glory of visiting two other states in my weeee little life, German is like

Can I get it in English?

You can download either German or English.
http://www.ib-burkart.de/
Click on download to the left and it will take you to the page where both are.