WA1: "Adventures done Adventurously" project topic

Discuss the games (no level solutions or off-topic, please).

Moderators: ~xpr'd~, tyteen4a03, Stinky, Emerald141, Qloof234, jdl

Post Reply
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:05 am

So using this, we can save 30 seconds in WA1 Any%.
In "The Pyramid", we will use Stealing Items from Adventures to steal the left mystery item, then we will use it on the water to form the bridge. Then we will select "Restart Adventure" then we will save before the fade out screen ends, then we will reload the save. Now our inventory has reset to what is was at the beginning of the adventure, so we get our mystery item back and we will use it again on the other water tile to form the second bridge. This means that we only have to collect the mystery item down the left path once.

We can save a minute in WA3 Any%.
This will be done using the restart adventure just before collecting a star technique (the restart adventure just before saving doesn't work in WA3).
This will be used on the stars in the adventures:
Bridge Control Alpha
Suction Tube Network
Rescuing Wysp
Shoo Chomper, Don't Bother Me!
Last edited by billy bob on Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Muzozavr
Rainbow Spirit Chaser
Posts: 5643
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:55 pm

Post by Muzozavr » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:16 am

Just had time to watch your last run, it's fantastic!

Some moments make me ashamed as a beta tester (we should not have missed that talking to Morklin again in that spot will allow you to pass through without unlocking the other stinkers and get to Barren earlier) but such tricks are all the better for speedruns. :wink:

Very neat tricks on many levels. Apparently, the whole "stealing items from adventures" breaks levels wide open, left and right.

Note on "Bubble Pop": you might want to experiment with using only ONE turtle on the green button, then getting the other three through the gate, stopping them where needed with grow. You can actually exit the level that way. It's stupid hard (trust me on that, because that's how I originally solved the level :lol: ) but, if successful, it will skip the loooong journey back and to the burstflower and to the exit.

Actually, during the beta period I was so sure that I knew how to solve this level that I thought the rainbow bubble would block the turtles and when they went straight through I was stunned and also very annoyed. :lol: Had to use GROW and swear a lot in order to get through. Didn't even think about the much easier burstflower/bubble combination until someone told me.

On "Magic Defense Challenge": are you sure it's always to your advantage to use the restart glitch? When you get the green key, the spikeball is in a very bad position and you have to wait for a long time. Have you checked if collecting the previous key, then NOT restarting and going directly to the green key might put the spikeball in a better place?

Anyway, awesome run with epic routes, blew my mind constantly.
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
User avatar
Jutomi
Rainbow AllStar
Posts: 4387
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:42 pm

Muz

Post by Jutomi » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:03 pm

Muzozavr, I solved that level the same way as you did. :lol:

I didn't have a lot of swearing but my mind was like "WHYY MS HOW COULD YOU" so... yeah. :lol:

I was so greatful to find Soufolini solve it a simpler way. :P
... and a little ashamed I couldn't find it. :oops:
Your only little stinker that's absolutely NOT a z-bot by this name,
Jutomi~ :mrgreen:

Also, if you want to see my level list, here it is! :D
(Also: List of Hubs, WA Manual)
Oh, and my YT wonderland channel. Forgot about that.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:46 pm

Muzozavr wrote:Some moments make me ashamed as a beta tester but such tricks are all the better for speedruns. :wink:
I think it's a negative thing for glitches to happen when the gamer isn't searching for them, I think it's a positive thing for glitches to happen when the gamer is searching for them. I haven't seen any Wonderland players claim to have any of these glitches happen to them by accident, so as far as I'm concerned the beta testers did a perfect job, eliminating all the glitches that can happen by accident, and deliberately leaving all the glitches that have to be searched for. :wink:

I think that if I were to design a game then I would deliberately make it so that there is a very hidden very fast way to beat the game that no one would find for a very long time.
Muzozavr wrote:(we should not have missed that talking to Morklin again in that spot will allow you to pass through without unlocking the other stinkers and get to Barren earlier)
I'm not sure what you mean by "talking to Morklin again in that spot". Unlocking the other Stinkers before teleporting to Barren doesn't happen and isn't intended to happen.
Muzozavr wrote:Note on "Bubble Pop": you might want to experiment with using only ONE turtle on the green button, then getting the other three through the gate, stopping them where needed with grow. You can actually exit the level that way. It's stupid hard (trust me on that, because that's how I originally solved the level :lol: ) but, if successful, it will skip the loooong journey back and to the burstflower and to the exit.
You're right! This saves 30 seconds! :D
It is difficult, but I know that, if I practice it lots, then I can get a near 100% consistency with it. 8)
Muzozavr wrote:On "Magic Defense Challenge": are you sure it's always to your advantage to use the restart glitch? When you get the green key, the spikeball is in a very bad position and you have to wait for a long time. Have you checked if collecting the previous key, then NOT restarting and going directly to the green key might put the spikeball in a better place?
I think you mean "Bridge Crossing Challenge".
The problem with this is, if we collect a key normally, then use Stealing Items from Adventures on another key, then we will lose the key that we collected normally.
Muzozavr
Rainbow Spirit Chaser
Posts: 5643
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:55 pm

Post by Muzozavr » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:10 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by "talking to Morklin again in that spot". Unlocking the other Stinkers before teleporting to Barren doesn't happen and isn't intended to happen.
I derped and misremembered -- was really tired at the moment, please ignore. I thought there was supposed to be some additional event before you teleport to the Barren and you somehow skip it with some double-dialogue trick, but I completely misremembered. After 100%ing the game, it's been quite a long time since I actually revisited it. :lol: I actually have a better computer now, I'll see if I can record game footage on this PC -- losing the ability to do that is one of the main reasons I completely dropped out of individual level runs.
You're right! This saves 30 seconds!
Wow, didn't expect it to be that much... my memories are biased because I took a really long time trying to make it happen :lol: so I subconsciously thought it wouldn't save THAT much.
I think you mean "Bridge Crossing Challenge"
Yes, I did. Derped again. Didn't think it through with the keys. Still, could it be advantageous to get the green key last? Then you get all keys except two with restart glitching, you get whatever the other key is without restart glitching and then get the green key. Could that save any time? I honestly have no idea.
so as far as I'm concerned the beta testers did a perfect job, eliminating all the glitches that can happen by accident, and deliberately leaving all the glitches that have to be searched for.
Program-wise, MS's coding is surprisingly robust in these terms. It glitches up when you want it to, but when you're just playing the game normally, it doesn't. Glitch-wise, the only thing I'm really upset about is those respawning coins as the secret ending was meant to only be accessible after 100%ing the game.

There are a few levels, though, that can be easily "broken" without even needing glitches. I count those as a bit of a personal defeat as a beta tester. It's one thing when, say, the Portal testing team caught the alternate solution on chamber 14 and intentionally left it in (and we did stuff like that a few times, I personally bugged MS to not remove the floor in the bottom right corner of "Master Class") it's another thing when you completely miss this stuff.

The most ironic case happened when I myself broke "Suspicious Silence" some time after the game's release, despite being absolutely sure as a tester that I thought everything through. The result turned out to be good, as it allowed a player with not-so-fast-fingers (I think it was Liz Mayhew) to get 100% on the game without having to use the cheat code, but I keep feeling like I should've realized it during the testing. We would've probably left it in, but I do feel a bit ashamed for not even realizing it was possible.

I did prevent the world's stupidest shortcut on "Closing Doors", though, so there's that, at least.
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:25 pm

I've found a route 30 seconds faster for Rescue Mission B.
Muzozavr wrote:
billy bob wrote:Bridge Crossing Challenge
Didn't think it through with the keys. Still, could it be advantageous to get the green key last? Then you get all keys except two with restart glitching, you get whatever the other key is without restart glitching and then get the green key. Could that save any time? I honestly have no idea.
It's an idea, but the time it takes to get back through the green teleport after collecting the green key is too long.
Muzozavr wrote:
billy bob wrote:so as far as I'm concerned the beta testers did a perfect job, eliminating all the glitches that can happen by accident, and deliberately leaving all the glitches that have to be searched for.
Program-wise, MS's coding is surprisingly robust in these terms. It glitches up when you want it to, but when you're just playing the game normally, it doesn't.
I wonder if MS himself has seen all these glitches and speedruns.
Muzozavr wrote:Glitch-wise, the only thing I'm really upset about is those respawning coins as the secret ending was meant to only be accessible after 100%ing the game.
You mean this? I feel like that's less likely to happen than accidentally performing Stealing Coins from Adventures. What you have to do is, talk to Cedric-in-the-Morning, then following him through the northeast path. Talk to Cedric-in-the-Morning again, then the adventure star will appear. Now if you move onto the space one space below the adventure star then Cedric-in-the-Morning will move down blocking the path back to the coins. This means that, as soon as you move onto the space below the adventure star, then you won't be able to collect infinite coins this way, and the glitch can only be done after you've talked to Cedric-in-the-Morning and the adventure star has been activated. This means that you'd have to see the adventure star activate, then randomly decide to ignore it then choose to move all the way back through the path then collect the coins then go back through the path above again then talk to Cedric-in-the-Morning again.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:10 am

WA Planet of the Z-Bots Any% Speedrun - 1:32:21

I feel like there are more mistakes in this run than my last run, but it's still pretty good. See video description for mistakes.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:21 am

WA Planet of the Z-Bots Any% Speedrun - 1:31:45

This was a really really good run, I'm definitely done with this category now.

As there is a new 30 second time saver in The Pyramid I will be running WA1 Any% again. I was planning to run WA1 again anyway, because I've found a route in The Green Shard which is 7 seconds faster (the route avoids Blink and only uses Brr) and I found that playing the lower pair of adventures in the interior of Temple Ruins is about 5 seconds faster than playing the higher pair. There is also a risky strategy on Round and Round that I think could save around 15 seconds which seems doable. I also think Pop and Blink could be up to 15 seconds faster than Lazy Leaf Race.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:54 pm

Wonderland Adventures Any% Speedrun - 34:36

I discovered a new route. In this route we don't collect the purple key from The Plains or complete two adventures in the exterior of Temple Ruins.
Instead, we use the red key from The Magic Gloves to open a door that was never supposed to be opened. The pictures explain all.
Attachments
Temple Ruins Purple Button Early 2.jpg
Temple Ruins Purple Button Early 2.jpg (177.14 KiB) Viewed 21103 times
Temple Ruins Purple Button Early 1.jpg
Temple Ruins Purple Button Early 1.jpg (194.46 KiB) Viewed 21103 times
garirry
Rainbow Star
Posts: 1666
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by garirry » Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:43 pm

billy bob wrote:Wonderland Adventures Any% Speedrun - 34:36

I discovered a new route. In this route we don't collect the purple key from The Plains or complete two adventures in the exterior of Temple Ruins.
Instead, we use the red key from The Magic Gloves to open a door that was never supposed to be opened. The pictures explain all.
It's surprising how far we've come. I am pretty certain this is the final or at least near-final route for the game. I remember when speedrunning this was one hour long. :)

Great job as always. Not to push you too much or anything, but will you ever consider doing a 100% speedrun of this game eventually? :)
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:57 pm

garirry wrote:I am pretty certain this is the final or at least near-final route for the game.
It could be, but you really can never know for sure. Just when you think the route can't get any faster some crazy new glitch can be found, I've seen it happen for other games.
garirry wrote:Great job as always. Not to push you too much or anything, but will you ever consider doing a 100% speedrun of this game eventually?
I'll probably do MOFI Any% before WA1 100%.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:08 am

I've looked into MOFI's key steal potential. Because of the combination of the stealing items from adventures glitch and the glitch that resets the inventory back to the beginning of the adventure, there will be key steals, and the same stolen keys will be used repeatedly.

MOFI has an advantage over POTZ in that the saving method of the resetting the inventory to the beginning of the adventure glitch is possible and also that there isn't a seven second penalty when performing the win adventure method.

These aren't the key steals/uses that will be in the final route, they are the potential key steals/uses, because I haven't timed any adventures against each other yet, I've just looked at the fastest ways to complete the adventures that could potentially be in the route. So some of the adventures that contain key steals/uses will be left out.






MOFI Key Steals in Adventures


Turtle Cavern

Green Key - 6 seconds for first one then 23 for the rest


Pop Magic

Blue Key - 0 seconds for first one then 22 seconds for rest


Jungle Creatures

Yellow Key - 0 seconds for first one then untimed for rest


Crab Columns

Green Key - 0 seconds for first one then 12 seconds for rest


Teleporter Maze

Green Key - 16 seconds
Purple Key - 6 seconds for first one then untimed for rest
Blue Key - Untimed


Turtle Navigation

Red Key - 0 seconds for first one then 15 seconds for rest


The Ascent

White Key - 6 seconds for first one then untimed for rest


Follow the River

Indigo Key - 6 seconds for first one then untimed for rest


Lost Lake

Blue Key (subcolour 1) - 0 seconds for first one then untimed for rest


Baby Go Boom!

Red Key - Untimed


Hall of Shadows

Red Key - 11 seconds
Orange Key - 0 seconds for first one then 11 seconds for rest


Pool Room

Green Key (subcolour 1) - 0 seconds for first one then 11 seconds for rest
Orange Key (subcolour 1) - 0 seconds for first one then 11 seconds for rest
Yellow Key (subcolour 1) - 0 seconds for first one then 19 seconds for rest


Red Crab Nesting Area

Red Key - Untimed


Hot Enough For You?

Red Key (subcolour 1) - 0 seconds for first one then untimed for rest


The Volcanic System

Blue Key - Untimed
Indigo Key - Untimed
Purple Key - Untimed
White Key - Untimed


Over and Under

Orange Key - Untimed


Floing Training 101

White Key - Untimed


Brr at the Shore

Blue Key (subcolour 2) - 2 seconds for first one then untimed for rest
Indigo Key - Untimed


Crevasse Chase

Green Key - Untimed
Blue Key - Untimed


Time your Blink!

White Key - Untimed


Across the Abyss

Blue Key - Untimed


Limited Access

Blue Key - Untimed


Ice Troll Outpost

White Key - Untimed
Blue Key - Untimed


At the End of it All

Red Key - Untimed
Blue Key - Untimed



MOFI Uses for Key Steals


Steal one green key from Turtle Cavern to skip
Some of Pop Magic
Some of Flip Flop
Some of A Change of Colour
Grow Magic (uses up one key)

Steal one blue key from Pop Magic to skip
Some of Flip Flop
A part of Heart of the Jungle
Some of The Ascent
A part of Living on the Edge
Some of The Acid Swamp
Some of The Ice Storm
Some of Limited Access
A part of Cellar Excavation
A part of At the End of it All

Steal one yellow key from Jungle Creatures to skip
Most of Crab Columns
A part of Turtle Navigation
Some of Spikeys in the Dark
Almost all of Scritter Maze
Some of Spikey Situation
A part of Flippin Hot
Almost all of GROW or Pay
Some of Castle Walls

Steal one green key from Crab Columns to skip
Most of Heart of the Jungle (same key will be used twice)
Most of BLINK Fast
A part of Boom or Bust
Almost all of Spikeys in the Dark
Some of Spikey Situation
Some of Crevasse Chase

Steal one red key from Turtle Navigation to skip
A part of Blink River
A part of Follow the River
A part of Watterfall Cliffs
Most of BLINK Fast
Most of Hall of Shadows
Almost all of Red Crab Nesting Area (same key will be used thrice)
Some of Spikey Situation
A part of Flippin' Hot
Almost all of GROW or Pay
Some of The Acid Swamp
A part of Abandoned Fort
A part of Cellar Excavation
Some of Castle Walls
Some of At the End of it All

Steal one purple key from Teleporter Maze to skip
A part of The Ascent
A part of Crevasse Chase
A part of Abandoned Fort
Some of Limited Access
Some of Castle Walls

Steal one indigo key from Follow the River to skip
Some of Waterfall Cliffs
Most of BLINK Fast
Some of The High Point
Most of The Volcanic System
A part of Brr at the Shore
Some of Castle Walls

Steal one white key from The Ascent to skip
A part of FLOING Training 101
A part of Abandoned Fort
A part of Time your Blink!
Some of Castle Walls

Steal one orange key from Hall of Shadows to skip
Most of Over and Under
Some of The Acid Swamp
A part of Abandoned Fort
Most of Locks n' Boomers
Some of Castle Walls

Steal one red key (subcolour 1) from Hot Enough For You? to skip
Part of Flippin' Hot

Steal one green key (subcolour 1) from Pool Room to skip
A part of Brr at the Shore

Steal one blue key (subcolour 1) from Lost Lake to skip
A part of Brr at the Shore
A part of The Lost Ice Temple
Some of Across the Abyss
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:16 pm

garirry
Rainbow Star
Posts: 1666
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by garirry » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:54 am

I didn't read your previous post, so I have to say I'm impressed with this speedrun. Didn't know you could use a "restart steal" on a star and get back all consumed items. Also, that "restart cancel" (yes, we need cool names for glitches in speedruns) where all consumed items get returned in-stage was pretty nice as well.

Are any of those tricks possible in WA1 and WA3? Once again, great speedrun. Looking forward to a 100% WA1 speedrun if you are going to do one.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:59 am

garirry wrote:Didn't know you could use a "restart steal" on a star and get back all consumed items. Also, that "restart cancel" (yes, we need cool names for glitches in speedruns) where all consumed items get returned in-stage was pretty nice as well.
Selecting "Restart Adventure" resets the inventory back to what it was when you first stepped onto the adventure star, so interrupting the restart adventure fade out screen with saving then reloading or completing the adventure means that the inventory is brought back to what it was at the beginning of the adventure without the player's position and everything else being brought back to where it was at the beginning of the adventure. One thing to note with the saving method is that you can't see the cursor which can make navigating the menu difficult (if you exit to main menu screen then the cursor won't be there either).

Other types of Restart Cancel can be performed by selecting "Restart Adventure" during a fadeout screen between areas (wlv's), or having the restart adventure fadeout screen interrupted by a game over screen (or a cutscene, which is only possible in At The End Of It All).
garirry wrote:Are any of those tricks possible in WA1 and WA3?
The Reset Cancel glitch is barely used in WA1 Any% simply because there aren't many opportunities to use it in the route. Maybe it's because there are less keys in WA1? The saving method of Reset Cancel can't be performed in WA3 because you can't pause during fade out screens. The complete adventure method does work and is used, but there is a nine second penalty because you can't press ESC during the complete adventure fadeout screen.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:04 pm

WA Planet of the Z-Bots Any% Speedrun - 1:24:13

The time save is due to many new route improvements and a new skip.

The new skip is at 7:54 and skips four adventures (it would skip another two except we already had ways to skip those). It's a miracle that the mechanism works from the left. It works because NPCs that aren't active (Wysp, Morklin) still move when told. It does require three red keys but there's an accessible adventure in the area on the right that contains them.
Muzozavr
Rainbow Spirit Chaser
Posts: 5643
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:55 pm

Post by Muzozavr » Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:25 pm

OMG, that is amazing! Great find, indeed.
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
User avatar
Timecrokba
Rainbow Wonderlander
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:22 pm

Post by Timecrokba » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:59 pm

Well done.
garirry
Rainbow Star
Posts: 1666
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by garirry » Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:54 am

Oh yeah it's been a while since I watched the POTZ speedrun. Excellent job though! I keep forgetting how broken can this game be with the whole cancel restart to keep consumed items glitch. That new glitch is pretty damn cool though.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:50 am

billy bob wrote:
garirry wrote:I am pretty certain this is the final or at least near-final route for the game.
It could be, but you really can never know for sure. Just when you think the route can't get any faster some crazy new glitch can be found, I've seen it happen for other games.
Wonderland Adventures Any% Speedrun - 29:02
garirry
Rainbow Star
Posts: 1666
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by garirry » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:56 am

Impressive as usual. Though I'm curious how does it happen that the game crashes exactly (or is it a bit more/less?) than 15 seconds. It could be some kind of overflow, but that seems a bit weird. I guess we won't know anytime soon. Anyway, if I can get to get a TAS software to work, then we will be able to see really good results. Also, can you rename the video title to Any% w/ ASG instead of just any%? I think we will need to know exactly what to expect from the title.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:08 pm

garirry wrote:Though I'm curious how does it happen that the game crashes exactly (or is it a bit more/less?) than 15 seconds.
It's a bit more than 15. Why the game crashes is the biggest mystery about this glitch. EDIT: Actually the hub area reset side effect is more confusing.
Why the restart adventure/area transition fade out screen turns into a win adventure fade out screen actually makes sense. It seems that all the fade out screens are ordered segments of one big fade out screen. Here's what it looks like, with fade out screens bold and commands normal:

Restart Adventure/Area Transition >> Go to adventure title screen/next area >> Win Adventure >> Go to win location in hub >> Game Over >> Go to lose location in hub

But what we can do is, cancel any of these commands that take you away from the fade out screen by pausing on the frame just before they happen. Then that will make the fade out screen continue and eventually go onto the next fade out screen.
Last edited by billy bob on Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Edwin Chung
Gold Wonderlander
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:29 pm

Post by Edwin Chung » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:34 am

I wonder when you guys are having speedruns,don't you feel so nervous?Aren't afraid when doing mistakes?
garirry
Rainbow Star
Posts: 1666
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by garirry » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:49 am

I've done speedruns, you aren't afraid after you practised enough. It becomes pretty much natural, even things that may be hard at first can become a piece of cake after you've mastered it. But of course, there are some stressful moments, usually when failure has strong consequences or if a technique is really really easy to fail.
Edwin Chung
Gold Wonderlander
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:29 pm

Post by Edwin Chung » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:51 am

ok one more question
How can you walk into the dark?
garirry
Rainbow Star
Posts: 1666
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by garirry » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:05 am

Some monitors allow extreme brightness settings. If you put max brightness on them, you will be able to see where you're going (it isn't pitch black, it's just really dark).
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:13 am

Edwin Chung wrote:I wonder when you guys are having speedruns,don't you feel so nervous?Aren't afraid when doing mistakes?
Yes, but I just tell myself that whatever will happen will happen. I've practiced enough, so I shouldn't fail, but if I do then it's just a matter of doing another attempt. It's for runs longer than an hour that this starts to get scary, because you really, really don't want to have to go through all that again and start all the way from the beginning. Generally when I'm running it isn't the difficult things that I fail, it's just anything. It can be completely random.
Sometimes towards the end of a run my hands get so sweaty that the controls stop working, this is a genuine problem.
Edwin Chung wrote:How can you walk into the dark?
Most areas that are dark aren't actually pitch black, there's just very, very little light. But this is still enough to see what's essential in the area. It's easier to see if the brightness is turned up on the monitor (I actually don't have to turn it up at all though). Note that watching a recording of a dark area will look darker than it actually is. So when watching a recording of a dark area, it could look like it's pitch black but when playing it isn't.

There is one area in my runs that is actually pitch black, and that's the dark side of Barren in POTZ Any% (since the new skip in the first segment we no longer get the glow gem). Fortunately there are convenient setups for this using both the keys and mouse.
There are adventures that it would be faster to do but are almost impossible without seeing, they are Crevasse Chase (MOFI Any% No ASG) and Down, Down, Into the Dark (POTZ Any%).
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:36 am

For those who don't check my channel I should probably mention that I have actually completed the runs using Adventure Skip Glitch and all can be viewed here:
Wonderland Adventures Speedrun Records


In MOFI Any% some of the early ASGs in the jungle were dark blue instead of black which makes no sense. The lighting goes black as normal but once as ASG is activated and the camera goes below the floor the screen goes dark blue. I guess it must be something to do with the cutscene just earlier.

My current total time for beating the WA trilogy is 2:34:51.
Last edited by billy bob on Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:49 pm

Wonderland Adventures Any% Speedrun - 25:58

The new route improvement is at 11:33.


How does the inventory restore itself when an adventure is restarted or aborted?
When the adventure title screen appears, an inventory restore point is created. The game records whatever the inventory was at that moment in time and keeps that record until it is overwritten when the next adventure title screen appears.
So when does the inventory restore point get used?
When an adventure is restarted or aborted (but not won), the game will overwrite the current inventory with the inventory restore point.
But one thing to note here is, the inventory gets restored as soon as the "Restart Adventure" option is selected from the menu, not when the adventure title screen appears. This leaves a gap between the inventory getting restored, and the inventory restore point getting overwritten. This gap is the restart adventure fade out screen.
During this fade out screen we can collect items and coins, and they will be kept after the adventure has been restarted because they were collected after the inventory was restored.
During this fade out screen we can save then reload the game (except in POTZ). This cancels the fade out screen so that the adventure doesn't restart, but the inventory is still restored.
During this fade out screen we can win the adventure. This cancels the restart adventure fade out screen and starts a win adventure fade out screen, which means the command for the adventure title screen never activates but the inventory is still restored.

But how does the inventory work with Floinging back in time?
There are two differences.
The first difference is, during the adventure certain items will be removed from the inventory, like keys and ID items, but certain items like the magic gloves and the glow gem are kept. I'm not sure how the game does this. One thing I've noticed is that if you swap items around before Floinging back in time it actually allows you to keep them in the adventure. Literally just swap a key with an empty inventory space then Floing back in time and the key will be kept during the adventure. Simple as that. It doesn't make any sense to me yet.
The second difference is that the current inventory will be overwritten with the inventory restore point when the adventure is won as well as when the adventure is restarted or aborted.
The way the game is told to do this in WA1 is what allows the new trick in WA1 (ASG) Any%.

When an adventure is selected in the Floing menu in WA1, the game is told that if the following adventure is won then the current inventory should be overwritten by the inventory restore point. Under normal circumstances, the following adventure would be the adventure that was just selected in the Floing menu, but the fade out screen between selecting the adventure in the Floing menu and the adventure title screen appearing can be interrupted. It can be interrupted by saving then reloading the save, but when you leave north Wondertown the effects of the Floing menu will be gone, even if reentered.
So what can we do from within north Wondertown?
Only adventure skip glitch. Adventure skip glitch is winning an adventure, and because we just selected an adventure from the Floing menu the game is told that if the following adventure is won then the inventory should be restored.
So if we perform adventure skip glitch, what is the inventory going to be restored to?
Normally when using the Floing menu an inventory restore point is created when the adventure title screen appears just after the adventure is selected, so that when the adventure is won the inventory will return to whatever it was at the beginning of the adventure. But with this intervention the adventure title screen doesn't come up and the inventory restore point isn't overwritten, so whatever the inventory was during the previous time an adventure title screen was activated will still be the inventory restore point.
So from north Wondertown we can restore the inventory to whatever it was the last time an adventure was played.
In WA1 Any% we use this like this:
We collect four mushroom keys.
We start an adventure to create an inventory restore point where we have four mushroom keys.
We offload the four mushroom keys at Mushroom Grove.
We go to Guggenheimer and select an adventure in the Floing menu.
To stop the adventure title screen from appearing we pause on the last frame of the fade out screen to start adventure skip glitch.
We perform adventure skip glitch which overwrites the current inventory with the inventory restore point.
We return to Mushroom Grove and use the four mushroom keys for the second time.

The way Floinging back in time works in WA2/WA3 changes. I don't know exactly but it adapts to Guggenheimer being in multiple areas in WA2 and whatever was changed stops this from working.

Also when adventure skip glitch is performed through the Floing menu there are seemingly random adventure replay results like this:
Attachments
8912681 min 18 sec.jpg
8912681 min 18 sec.jpg (10.95 KiB) Viewed 19340 times
billy bob
Rainbow SuperStar
Posts: 2894
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:37 pm

Post by billy bob » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:37 am

Wonderland Adventures Any% No Adventure Skip Glitch Speedrun - 30:39

This run includes a new glitch that can be seen at 13:21 and 14:33 and 21:26. This trick also saves 10 seconds in WA1 Any% with Adventure Skip Glitch, so maybe I'll redo that also but it's not important because that category's far more difficult to optimise (record would be difficult to beat even with new improvement).

The effects of the glitch are:
1. The inventory will be restored to what it was the last time an adventure was started/restarted.
2. The area will be restored to what it was when it was last entered.

It can only really be done in WA1 because only WA1 has Star magic, and the glitch requires a game over screen.
Post Reply