Solutions

ol'gramma · Post by **ol'gramma** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:31 am

Wonderlanders,
I would like to express my thoughts about responding to requests for hints/solutions.
How many times has someone given a solution to a level that isn't theirs, just to find out that it was not meant to be done that way, and is a lot easier the way the author intended. This is the reason why, when someone other than the author gives a solution, it should be given out in the open instead of "in secret." Maybe it's not a huge deal, but it's very irritating to more than one of us.

I think the author of a level should respond any way he wishes; by PM, or posting under a 'Spoiler' heading on his/her level.
If someone else decides to help out and respond to the request, it should be done by post only.
I know that I often will go back to look and see if a hint is posted.....if you don't want to know, don't read it; we are not children.

If a request for help in SW is posted, all of the designers of those levels are on the forum and, it is best to just post a link to the solutions page.
If there is no solution posted, you wish to respond and are not the maker of the level, then the solution should be posted, not PM'd.

Ol'gramma
Carolyn

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:57 am

Carolyn,

I openly accept a big part of the blame for this spate of PMing, but there is an obvious reason for it.

Earlier in the month, I did say I would PM hints and tips to people needing help, but only for a short while and only for the levels where no hints and tips were on site yet. Once the level designers got the 'official Hint and Tips' posted on the MS site, I would stop this and go back to the 'traditional'
SPOILER - END SPOILER method.

Now that that has been achieved I am back to the Spoiler method. But, folks, don't expect full detailed direct solutions, I prefer posting little 'cryptic' clues (just like I used to); I think it makes it more fun. You guys still need to do the work yourselves!!!

Bear

sfseaman · Post by **sfseaman** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:26 am

Good point, and I agree, a good rule for all of us. I will bring my errant ways in line.

Gen · Post by **Gen** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:41 am

As a player and not a creator, I would like to agree with ol'gramma about posting the hints/solutions on the appropriate thread. When I was first learning, I used the search function to see if any hints had been given. It was helpful about 50-60% of time. I have hesitated PMing the creator because I didn't want to bother them. When I have PMed the creator of a custom level for hints most have been very helpful, but some have left the board and are not available. Having to PM the creator for a solution does not help the person who joins the board 6 months from now, particularly if the creator has forgotten any hints or has left Wonderland.

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:39 am

I agree, I'm surprised with all the PMing you guys have done, looking through the most recent posts. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but it does mean you have to repeat yourself over and over again.

One suggestion I had made to others is this, if you want to double protect any spoilers: put the text in White font, that way it is hard to read (for anyone just browsing) and needs to be highlighted to become clear.

Like so:

Spoiler! (highlight to read)

The answer to this level, of course, is 42.

End Spoiler

It ain't perfect, but it hides it a little better.

Liz Mayhew · Post by **Liz Mayhew** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:46 am

Patrick - that idea for spoilers is brilliant, so you can't glimpse something if you don't want to.

BTW - are you a fan of Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy? Where the final answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything is 42?

Liz

Kaboom! · Post by **Kaboom!** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:04 am

42 is my lucky number btw!

majic1 · Post by **majic1** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:08 pm

I completely agree with OG, and I'd like add another reason for posting solutions on the forum, rather than PMing them - there ARE people who don't care to communicate through PM's; they read the forum but don't care to actively participate; they would like to just look for any little hints to a level, maybe a solution.

Also, when solutions/hints are posted in the forum, it gives other members the opportunity to discuss it and maybe different ways they have come up with for completing a level.

I like Patrick's idea for posting spoilers; this way you won't read it unless you really want to! I wonder why we never thought of this before!!!

janetgalle · Post by **janetgalle** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:01 pm

If someone were to contact me by PM asking for a hint or a solution, I would certainly be willing to supply what help I can. If someone posts a request for help in the open forum, I am quite happy to let anyone who is willing or able to assist that person to do so. Simply because of my erratic schedule, sometimes I don't even see a request for help for a long time, so if they waited for me to supply the help they need, they might have quite a wait. I don't know about anyone else, but when I want help, I want help NOW.... not later. We all know that many times there are different ways to solve a level. The intended way or the "different" way, does it matter? As long as the person gets enough info to help them complete the level.

PMs, Open Forum, Spoilers, hints...smoke signals! What ever it takes!

jg

ol'gramma · Post by **ol'gramma** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:15 pm

I think my point is being missed here.....

I do not object to others giving solutions to levels that are not theirs.

It is the manner in which it is done....PM or Post.

If the level is not yours, then post your solution for all who care to read it, including the author, instead of doing so by PM.

O/G

popo · Post by **popo** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:11 pm

I would like to know why there are solutions for almost all the easier, early levels in Secret Worlds, and fewer for the more difficult levels (with a few exceptions) which most people require solutions for. It seems a bit topsy turvy to me.

janetgalle · Post by **janetgalle** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:53 pm

popo wrote:I would like to know why there are solutions for almost all the easier, early levels in Secret Worlds,

Because we are supposed to soak up all that knowledge and apply it when we reach the more difficult areas?
(Didn't work for me, maybe I need to soak longer?!?)

jg

malcdelsol · Post by **malcdelsol** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:16 pm

Hi Wondelanders,

I read this thread first thing this morning and to say I was 'Most Annoyed'
is to phrase it very mildly indeed - there is no question that this is yet another dig at me - for doing what - offering help to people that have taken the time to ask for it

I have 'bit my lip' all day

What the hell gives you the right OG to try and impose yet more 'Policing' of this Forum - especially when as far as I can remember you have never given any help to others.

The fact that I decided to give help via PMs is 'MY DARN RIGHT'.

I have never, as far as I can remember, ever given out a solution on a Custom level.
As far as Wonderland, Classic, Deluxe and Secret World levels are concerned (with the exception of Stinkers Rescue) they are open to anyone offering help.

If I wish to help other Wonderlanders then I reserve the right to do it in any way I DARN PLEASE.

Having said that - I'm finished with the FEDERAL STATES OF WONDERLAND anyway. There are many other games and Forums to be involved in.

Malcdelsol

Superterv · Post by **Superterv** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:33 pm

Malcdelsol, please don't leave Wonderland, we need you here I may not be a great level designer or a clever player but I do appreciate the games you put up and would really miss your witty posts and clever intricate levels. Part of something would be missing in Wonderland if you were not here. Please stay...

Superterv

Just a player

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:02 pm

Please don't leave Malcdelsol, you have made several Wonderland levels.
And have enjoyed trying to figure out each level.

Please stay, I have thought of leaving several times because of certain policing going on but I am still here. I don't make levels but I do enjoying
a challenge.

ol'gramma · Post by **ol'gramma** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:13 pm

Malc,
I am sorry that you took my post personally.
It was NOT aimed at you, or anyone, for that matter.
I am not your enemy, I am very fond of you.

It was my intent to suggest that the level is the property of the Author, who should retain control over how others give solutions. It is good manners and shows respect.

The player is just that....the player who completed the level.
How each author wants solutions, given by others on a level he created, to be handled, is certainly up to him, and he can so state.

Don't leave, you would create a "Void"

O/G

the cat · Post by **the cat** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:33 pm

Please don't leave, I need your long answers. We just can't lose any more people from Wonderland.

You would be miss by Many many of your friends
we are all family here.
Go get some fresh warm air. Stop bitting your lip, That Hurts.
OOO HUGS "I hope this is a April fools Joke"

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:59 pm

Hi Carolyn,

Looks like we got another un-necessary row here.

What a pity!!

ol'gramma wrote:It was my intent to suggest that the level is the property of the Author, who should retain control over how others give solutions. It is good manners and shows respect.

The player is just that....the player who completed the level.
How each author wants solutions, given by others on a level he created, to be handled, is certainly up to him, and he can so state.

I'm not wanting to fuel this row or anything here, but you should realise that the level is not the property of the author, not once it's been uploaded here to this forum. All posted levels belong to Midnight Synergy.

Patrick clearly states in the 'Custom Level' Forum in this Q & A post: http://pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21

(3). Please note that all Return To Wonderland custom levels are "officially" the property of Midnight Synergy. Not a biggie - but if you want to post them on another site, just check with us and get our ok first.

The levels in the 'Official' games definitely belong to MS. Patrick made this forum for people to discuss and help with 'his' games. He has effectively already given his permission for anyone to help anyone else with hints, tips or whatever. As far as the levels in Secret Worlds are concerned, (regardless of designer), it looks to me as if the same rules apply.

I'm also going to point out that some people frequent the boards more than others. What you are suggesting means that someone stuck on a level needs to wait, (maybe 10 minutes, maybe 10 days, but wait all the same), for the author to see the post and give a hint, tip or solution or give their permission for another to do so. You must admit that helps no-one.

I suggest Patrick (poor fellow must be getting sick of having to make new rules) makes a ruling on this.

Until this sillyness is resolved, I'll not be making any help posts or answering PM requests for help either. Sorry folks.

Bear

btw. I am still up for gossip and general sillyness though.

majic1 · Post by **majic1** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:20 pm

Ooops - maybe you missed this?

ol'gramma wrote:I think my point is being missed here.....
I do not object to others giving solutions to levels that are not theirs.

It is the manner in which it is done....PM or Post.

If the level is not yours, then post your solution for all who care to read it, including the author, instead of doing so by PM.

O/G

I think that was the main point! So it looks like you both basically agree!

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:54 pm

majic1 wrote:Ooops - maybe you missed this?

Nope, I didn't.

I was making the point all that the levels are Midnight Synergy's, not yours, mine, his, her's or anyone else's. It is for him to make the rules; object to methods, etc.., no-one else.

My last word on this one methinks.

ol'gramma · Post by **ol'gramma** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:49 am

I think we have been around the Mulberry Bush on this one...

Patrick wrote:

Please note that all Return To Wonderland custom levels are "officially" the property of Midnight Synergy. Not a biggie - but if you want to post them on another site, just check with us and get our ok first.

I believe he was only referring to posting the levels elsewhere....but he can clarify himself.

O/G

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:21 am

ol'gramma wrote:I believe he was only referring to posting the levels elsewhere....but he can clarify himself.

So much for me saying my last words

He says the second part about other forums because he is claiming ownership in the first part.

Here's a nice Old Bear solution:

As Pat's 'official proxy spokesman' here in Wonderland. I officially rule as follows:

Anyone else can post, PM, e-mail, or send through a third-party psychic medium the hint, tip or solution of any level. They can even nip across to the player's house and do it for them personally or any other way they see fit. problem sorted.

Yippee! Home visits.

Hmmm... now who did I quite fancy in that Picture Comp who made need help???

In the end it's easier if everyone just does it their way, and certainly not an issue for anyone to fall out over.

ol'gramma · Post by **ol'gramma** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:30 am

Can I use my chainsaw to take out all the trees blocking my view when I play a level?

You forgot that part

O/G

majic1 · Post by **majic1** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:33 am

If nothing else, the problem with PMing solutions has been addressed. I know it bothered me. (Sorry to anyone who objects) So, thanks ol'gramma!!!!

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:38 am

ol'gramma wrote:Can I use my chainsaw to take out all the trees blocking my view when I play a level?

Yes. Chainsaw, gun, tank, sharp tongue, menacing glance; it's your choice.

I'm calling it quits with one. But just thinking of you OG has reminded me it's nostalgia time. How's Ol' Gramma's dog???

ol'gramma · Post by **ol'gramma** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:45 am

How's Ol' Gramma's dog

Still smiling, with big teeth

We had puppies....they are EVERYWHERE.

O/G

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:51 am

ol'gramma wrote:
How's Ol' Gramma's dog
Still smiling, with big teeth
We had puppies....they are EVERYWHERE.

O/G

Excellent!! That's cool!!

Any Red or Yellow short, crocodilie looking ones???? You see, I have this theory and it goes ....

the cat · Post by **the cat** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:59 am

O/G congrats on the puppys.

majic1 · Post by **majic1** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:02 am

ol'gramma wrote:We had puppies....they are EVERYWHERE.

And I am getting ONE OF EACH COLOR!!

(I need to train them for new levels, you know.)

Davimad · Post by **Davimad** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:04 am

I want a tartan one.