Small World II - The levels

Jacks13 · Post by **Jacks13** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:51 pm

Funny you should say that Ann, I can even struggle with the kids levels

So there is no hope for me

Completed 3 and got close on a couple, I am not ashamed to say. Did them without spoilers too

You people are sure clever making these levels. Sadly, I won't be able to score either. I have given it my best shot, but it's not enough.
I am going back to normal downloads....... this has me beat

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:09 pm

I knew this would happen and I stick to my original comments about these being no fun for a lot of people.

Jacks13 · Post by **Jacks13** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:20 pm

Please don't get me wrong Bear, these are terrific levels which many have completed. But I believe that only level makers would possibly have the solution to solve. Well done everyone.

Superterv · Post by **Superterv** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:32 pm

I'd love a kids level competition I marked slightly differently from Bear as I couldn't complete a lot of the levels either. I did send in scores though.

Jacks13 · Post by **Jacks13** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:47 pm

Yeh...Superterv, I might even stand a chance if you did.

Guess I would still find it tricky though....

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:01 pm

Jacks13 wrote:Please don't get me wrong Bear, these are terrific levels which many have completed.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Jacks. My point is that the contest is supposed to be about having fun. Kudos to you for getting as far as you have.

Now there are sadists like myself and Loirae (and a few others) who do get pleasure from battering our heads on the desk trying to solve the harder levels, but some of the level makers in this contest seemed to forget that a very wide range of players may want to take part, not just the top players. This included beginners like yourself.

Maybe, as someone suggested, a difficult level contest could be arranged in the future or maybe even a kids' level contest, but, for the moment, we have this one. When I see top players like Liz and Janet getting stuck, I know they are hard. What chance do the beginners have???

Flame me if you like folks, but I say 'shame on you!' to the contestants who posted a real stinker. In my opinion, you've ruined this contest for some people.

Bear

janetgalle · Post by **janetgalle** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:03 pm

Hey guys, nobody said you had to complete them all in order to be able to vote.
It looks like only 1 or 2 players have done them all. (Super Congrats to you!)
That would be a very small panel of judges.

I think everyone who tried all these levels should vote. All you have to do is look at the level and give points for:

Compactness. Easy to give points for.

Inventiveness. Somewhat easy to give points for. (I never would have thought of that, or how did they do that? Or oh that was clever! = x points.)

Fun. Harder to give points for. (If you enjoy brain busters = higher points, if it was too frustrating = lower points. Did you smile/scream/ shout when you "got it"? Did you enjoy doing it over and and over 'til you got it? (or even didn't get it?) = higher points. Did you scream/shout /bang your head when you couldn't? Did you dread trying it even one more time? = lower points)

Any way thats how I plan to score them.
Since everyones personal preference is different, I think the scores will average out.

jg

Please vote!

Liz Mayhew · Post by **Liz Mayhew** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:10 pm

ann3120 wrote: Unfortunately, I'll won't be able to give scores and vote, because I have completed so few (I'll never tell, so don't even think of asking) that my judgement would be unfair.

Maybe the next competition could be for the Kids levels

Annie - you don't have to be able to complete a level to give it a score. I certainly won't be able to do them all but I'm still going to give points to each level. You can see if the level is compact, fun and inventive without having to complete it. I agree if you can complete a level it is more fun, because you have the satisfaction of doing it. So if you haven't had much fun doing a level, give it less points.

Jacks13 · Post by **Jacks13** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:35 pm

Bear, I have the utmost respect for you.

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:45 pm

Jacks13 wrote:Bear, I have the utmost respect for you.

Thanks, Jacks; that's an extremely nice thing to say.

I'm actually just letting off a bit of steam which, (as most around here know), I like to do occasionally.

I would like everyone to vote for all levels, regardless of whether they finished them or not.

Gen · Post by **Gen** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:15 pm

Bearsland wrote:some of the level makers in this contest seemed to forget that a very wide range of players may want to take part, not just the top players.

I know they are hard. What chance do the beginners have???

Flame me if you like folks, but I say 'shame on you!' to the contestants who posted a real stinker. In my opinion, you've ruined this contest for some people.

Bear

Bear, I have to agree with you TOTALLY! In addition, I have seen this trend toward "brainbusters" going on for a few months now for regular levels posted. I have a question for the designers. Have you noticed that some of the players that used to post on your level threads no longer do or do so only for the easier levels? Why do you think that is? I know some have expressed that they no longer enjoy the board because of this and are even considering leaving, me included. If it weren't for the friendships I've developed here, I would.

I have completed 17 of the levels, 4 with the help of spoilers. I will vote and encourage all to do the same. My method is similar to that of JG's

"Fun. Harder to give points for. (If you enjoy brain busters = higher points, if it was too frustrating = lower points. Did you smile/scream/ shout when you "got it"? Did you enjoy doing it over and and over 'til you got it? (or even didn't get it?) = higher points. Did you scream/shout /bang your head when you couldn't? Did you dread trying it even one more time? = lower points)"

This board is supposed to be fun, not frustrating. I urge the designers to think about why they are making levels. Are you making them for others to enjoy or are you trying to frustrate them? Is there a "one ups manship" going on here?

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:01 pm

I make levels for folks to have fun and its fun to make levels, Further more I never try to one up any level maker, I'm not that good, I try to make levels that are fun and doable, I'm sorry if some are harder than others its not intended. Some levels I think are easy turn out to be hard and ones I'm sure are going to be hard turn out to be easy, So go figure, I get an idea and build around it so when i make a level it kinda evolves on its own, I never draw them out on paper. I certainly don't want to frustrate people.

Superterv · Post by **Superterv** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:09 pm

Nice reply Kiki, I'm like you - a level of mine just evolves and changes till I'm happy with it. I do them for people to have fun, sorry if any I make are too hard - it is not my intention promise

Davimad · Post by **Davimad** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:35 pm

Gosh Gen, I thought it was just me getting 'Wonderlanded out'.
I'm so far behind with all the custom levels that I have lost interest recently. I've completed a few of the comp levels and still working on some, the remainder are just beyond me so they will be left to gather dust.

Maybe I should give the kids levels a go, it might bring back some enthusiasm again. Is this the same woman who used to eat and sleep Malc's levels?

Please don't take this the wrong way guys, you are all great designers and some of the levels are an absolute joy but please think of us poor worn out Wonderlanders.

I fully intend to give a score to every level, it's only fair to the people who took the time to design them.

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:47 pm

My two cents (pretty uninformed though, I hardly play the custom levels myself) - I very much doubt anyone is one-upping and intentionally making levels so hard to make them no longer fun (well, with one exception, I'll get to that in a few days -

).

Rather, I think it's related to the fact that the game has been around for some time now. With 3000 levels I'm sure many designers feel it's hard to come up with new and interesting variations. Remember, also, that level designers want to have fun in the designing process, too, and one way that level designs can evolve after the 100th level is to get progressively harder. A side-effect of the game's longevity, perhaps.

2006 should bring a slew of all new levels of all difficulty levels as the Platinum Edition comes out - and hopefully all sorts of "retired" level makers come out of the woodwork again to play with all the new toys.

I also think this should definitely be a call out to those who do not enjoy head-cracker puzzles to get into the level-making fray and make levels that they enjoy playing.

I also think a Kids Level competition is an excellent idea!!! It would be really neat to see people come up with interesting level designs specifically geared toward younger players. I'm sure we could get some fantastic results.

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:53 pm

Oh Patrick. That what I'm talking about. It is hard to come up with original ideas after the first 100 levels. Well said Patrick, Thanks.

Willwonka4442 · Post by **Willwonka4442** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:10 pm

I managed all! with the hint to i must
admit. Thank you for the great levels.
They are great. I'm might have some
difficulty deciding.

A new platinum small world competition
would be awesome. A tiny hint of what
to expect would be beast!

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:22 pm

My two cents!

Personally, I think it is good that there are level makers out there in Wonderland who produce levels with a variety of easy/medium/hard element.

We have those who create easy levels, others who create medium and perhaps more do-able levels, and those level makers that make hard challenging levels. We are all different, both in our creation and in our ability to solve levels.

I have said this before - it is not the end of the world if you can't solve all the custom levels submitted! I used to think it was - but it isn't! It's really as simple as that. There are people who play levels who really enjoy the challenge of a stinker level. If all the levels were of a medium challenge then I am sure these peole would soon get bored with not having a challenge anymore and we would lose them to another game!

There are still many levels in the last "Small Worlds Comp" that I have NEVER been able to finish - in fact, I have finished more this time around

I do understand that there were some very hard levels in this competition. I actually made quite an easy level for the comp, one that I hoped would be fun and do-able for most folk. There was always going to be harder levels in there too - something for everybody I hope? Please try and vote for all the levels folks - even if you haven't been able to complete them. A lot of hard work went into them.

As for one-upmanship

I don't really understand what that means. I'm sorry, but I don't understand in what capacity one would make a level in the name of one-upmanship????? Perhaps someone could fill me in please? This horrible "term" was used a while back and brought a very bad taste to my mouth and to the forum - I still don't really understand what the hell it means?

The Platinum Edition sounds like it will come with new exciting "stuff" for us to play with - I can't wait

Loirae · Post by **Loirae** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:35 pm

I wonder if some of the people who made these "super-hard" levels in the contest are aware of the fact that they've done so. Some probably are (Like EntryL), but some might've been testing them over and over in the creation process that it seemed easy after a while. That was my experience with a couple that I created and posted. They seemed so easy to me (as the creator) that by the time I posted them, that I was surprised by the comments of people saying the levels were tough.

After we find out who made the levels, some creators may be surprised that all this time we were talking (and complaining) about them!

Loirae · Post by **Loirae** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:58 pm

Also wondering: Anyone who has completed EntryL: Tips for getting past the UFO? Is it all about fast fingers? Is there a plce to put the metal box that will help out?

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:34 pm

Loirae wrote:Is it all about fast fingers? Is there a plce to put the metal box that will help out?

Yes. And unless any of the other guys know differently, No.

bordeaux · Post by **bordeaux** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:56 pm

I create levels that I would enjoy playing. I rarely set out to make a level easy or hard. I like levels where A leads to B which leads to C etc. I'm not a big fan of coilys and ghosts and other random elements. To me those levels are harder and more frustrating. I don't think it is fair to berate level makers who wished to participate in this contest because their levels were difficult. I have 2 left to finish and I think I am done trying, but I enjoyed playing and appreciate the effort put into all the levels. Fun is an individual perception. I think there is an excellent mix of levels submitted everyday. My two cents.

mette · Post by **mette** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:37 pm

Entry J wrote: See screenshot below.

I used one reflector and one steel box and redirectet him this way (isn't that easier?). Anyway, this is the easy version of the level (I'll publish the hard after the contest has finished). In the easy version the boulder movement shold be no problem, so I just show you how to place the barrels as I did it (in the following order: purple, red, light green, yellow, light blue, dark blue, dark green). Now you can use the steel box to redirect the UFO and the reflector at the top of the level.

bordeaux · Post by **bordeaux** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:54 pm

Hey entry J, that isn't the way I did it. I think it is interesting to see another solution because it illustrates that sometimes all you need to do to solve what seems like a difficult puzzle is try to think of it in a different way. I know bear is always solving my levels differently than I intended. Sometimes when I read a spoiler to a puzzle I can't solve I can't believe how simple the solution actually is.

Bearsland · Post by **Bearsland** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:27 am

bordeaux wrote:I know bear is always solving my levels differently than I intended.

You know me well, Michelle.

I also done Entry J differently, (probably the hard way); I released 2 reflectors and left the UFO where it was.

Bear

kiki · Post by **kiki** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:28 am

Ditto for me as well Bear.

bordeaux · Post by **bordeaux** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:12 am

Yep, that's the way I did it too

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:40 pm

I have a question for the designers. Have you noticed that some of the players that used to post on your level threads no longer do or do so only for the easier levels? Why do you think that is? I know some have expressed that they no longer enjoy the board because of this and are even considering leaving, me included. If it weren't for the friendships I've developed here, I would

.

I have to agree with Gen, I don't post on the levels I can't complete, I like to try and play all the levels but because the levels are hard and getting harder, I try and then give up. If it wasn't the friends I have here and for the levels I can play I might leave too.

I do try to make levels so that the ones that have a hard time completing the levels will have some to play. I comment on the ones I complete but that is all. I use to be able to comment on a lot of them but "No More!
Thanks to everyone efforts in making levels.
Cat

the cat · Post by **the cat** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:57 pm

I have to agree with Cat and Gen,Bear.
I do try to play them,but it make me to up set when I have to do them over and over again. So I just give up. and go on to the next.
I did do any of the Small world games I don't have a way to un zip them.
so i'm not ever going to try.
Good Luck to all that have made the levels.

momtopetsonly · Post by **momtopetsonly** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:45 pm

I downloaded the challenges, but I guess I don't know how to unzip a folder, or I downloaded incorrectly. Any suggestions?
Pat