Possible Change in Custommodel/House System?

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:40 pm

Ok, so I've been thinking about how best to handle custom models (since this is a feature that you guys (and gals) really seem to enjoy). Obviously the current system works just fine, but it ain't the most elegant.

Esp. the mixing and matching of models means that people need to create multiple folders - almost one per advanced custom level.

So here is an alternate option I have thought about: RTWDeluxe would have two subdirectories, CustomModels and CustomHouses - but no need for a bunch of subdirectories. Instead, it would contain individual houseskins and models/skins. Each model/skin would again have an individualized name,

e.g. this directory has two houses and one model (with matching skin).

CustomHouses:
Poposhouse123x.jpg
Qookiecabin43sX.jpg

CustomModels:
Rudolph3dx34s.3ds
Rudolph3dx34s.jpg

Models/houses would hence be uploaded/downloaded individually.

Now, in the level editor, you would still have custom models ABCD. However, instead of pushing CTRl-M to pick one directory, you would press (e.g.) CTRL-A to enter the name of just model A (e.g. "Rudolph3dx34s"). Then CTRL-B to enter the name of model B. etc. Custom Houses would be entered via Ctrl-1,2,3,4. The level file (would have to be updated to .LV6) would store all that individual information for you.

Advantage is (hopefully) obvious - you no longer need to create sub-directories for levels and can mix'n'match models from any available. The slight disadvantage is that you have to enter a name for each model in the editor - but I still think this solution makes a lot more sense.

Opinions?

majic1 · Post by **majic1** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:54 am

Yes, this sounds good. So if we have 4 models we want to include in a level, we just put them in a zip file, and then they would be unzipped (after downloading) directly to the custommodels directory. Is that right?? If so, this sounds lots easier!!

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:58 am

Yes, but you'd only download a model once. Download e.g. the rudolph model, and you'd be set for any advanced level that uses the rudolph model. An advanced level posted in the forum would then list the various (individual) models required to run the level. If you always download all new custom models and houses, you'd automatically be set.

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:12 am

I think this new system sounds good, but it would be even better if it can search for custom models recursively (or at least one or two levels down the directory tree) inside all subfolders under CustomModels, instead of only at CustomModels itself. I'm saying this because "thanks" to Windows, it can be fairly easy for someone to unzip the models and have it ended up inside a subfolder instead of directly in CustomModels. For example, Windows XP have this godawfully irritating "feature" where when you ask it to extract files from the zip, it always defaults to creating a new folder w/ the same name as the zip file itself, unless you explicitly change the destination folder. Being able to find the models even if they're accidentally hidden under one or two levels of subfolders would ultimately make using custom models a bit even more user-friendly.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:13 am

That sounds really good Pat.

The way LnS & Pauline are going too, I would forsee the additional challenge that when we have downloaded a whole stack of models in all different directories, then say I go ahead and create a level using 1 model from here, another from there, another from somewhere else... if someone goes & downloads it, they're going to have to go either scrounging around for the different models (just to see if they even have them) or go looking for them in the model forum or redownload them all over again which may get a little frustrating if you are downloading a number of advanced levels... besides the issue of your bandwidth. Just for example there's currently 116 levels in the RTWD forum at the moment which means I've got at least 100 to download still

Having to then turn around & sort models as well would be

What happens then (as I'm working on now - when I can figure out the texture mapping thing

) if I produce a model with a blank jpg as you've done with your house models so others then can just customize for their personal level & upload a single jpg for that particular model... the obvious solution (and possibly the easiest for you) will be (for us) manually duplicating the model (copy/paste) & renaming the new model to the custom skin right? The other option (easiest for us

) would be to within the level file allow for a skin named X to be attached to a model named Y thereby eliminating the need to manually copy & rename 3DS files so in my custommodels directory I might have something like this...

BigBox3x3.3DS
BigBox3x3PopoABC.jpg
BigBox3x3LnSABC.jpg
BigBox3x3Majic1ABC.jpg
BigBox3x3OlGrammaABC.jpg
etc

Regards
Robbie

Kaboom! · Post by **Kaboom!** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:23 am

It sound good, Partrick and will certainly avoid all that confusion with sub-directories. If all models are like that, we can even include different models in the same level, right?

Of course, an EVEN BEST solution would be that if the editor had a "browse" button and that way would be less confusive than writting the file names (remembers me the old DOS interface

).

How about a browse button in the editor

popo · Post by **popo** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:24 am

OMG! I've just got used to the old way.

This dog's getting too old to keep learning new tricks!

Does this mean that if I make several variations of one model I will have to give them all different names so that they are individual in the directory?

I can see that it will be a lot easier for making levels with custom models and save having to download various combinations of models that you already have in your directories, but it will make it more time consuming for the model makers I think, but I suppose I can live with that (what's another hour when model making already takes up almost every waking hour

).

And yes, a browse button in the editor would be a very good idea.

Kaboom! · Post by **Kaboom!** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:19 am

popo wrote:OMG! I've just got used to the old way.

I wonder of Patrick could keep the 2 ways in the next editor version. that would make you happy.

majic1 · Post by **majic1** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:19 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote: If you always download all new custom models and houses, you'd automatically be set.

One exception would be LNS billboards. They would always have to be downloaded since each one is customized for a level.

janetgalle · Post by **janetgalle** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:01 am

OK...make sure I understand this.

There will be two directories.
All the models will be listed individually in CustomModels
All the houses will be listed individually in CustomHouses
When I want to make a level I still have to make a folder with my choice of up to 4 models and another folder with my choice of up to 4 houses,
and I still have to rename them model A-B-C-D and house1-2-3-4, so the game knows which houses/models I want to use.
When I upload the level I post the level file. And then make a list of the CustomModels/CustomHouses that are in the level.
Then it will be up to the individual downloading the level to make sure they have already downloaded all the models and houses.

Do I have that right?

If I am correct, this won't make any harder for me to build/post a custom level. But it might make it more difficult for the person downloading it. They might miss one file. Or have to jump back and forth to the directory
to see if they have all the houses/models.

I know I already have lots of duplicate custom models and houses in my folders, but at least when I downloaded the custom levels I knew that all the "special" items for that level were all together.

Thats my take on things.

jg

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:07 am

janetgalle wrote:OK...make sure I understand this.
There will be two directories.

Yes

janetgalle wrote: All the models will be listed individually in CustomModels
All the houses will be listed individually in CustomHouses

Yes

janetgalle wrote: When I want to make a level I still have to make a folder with my choice

No, there are no further subfolders. You will in the level editor specify that Model A is "rudolph", model B is "palmtree", etc. I.e. you enter the individual model name for each model A-B, rather than renaming them modelX.3ds and putting them into new subdirectories.

Does that make sense? (again, this is just a suggestion at this point - if you guys prefer the original method, I'm happy to keep it that way too)

janetgalle · Post by **janetgalle** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:33 am

Ok then, that would be a little more typing for the level maker, but not too bad,

Makes no difference to me, really. The only downside I can see about the way we do it now is that duplication of models/houses for different levels might make some people worry about disc space. And the downside for the new way would be that people might miss a specific download.(Say if 4 are needed for the level and they missed 1)

jg

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:59 am

janetgalle wrote:And the downside for the new way would be that people might miss a specific download.(Say if 4 are needed for the level and they missed 1)

jg

Well actually, even in the new system, you can still supply the same "download these zip files for this specific level" as in the current system. The difference is that instead of having a new folder within the zip file to houses the unzipped files, you let the user directly unzip the files into CustomModels and CustomHouses.

That is, whereas now the level-specific zip file first has a folder named mycustomstuff and then under it has the model and skin files, in the new system the level-specific file will skip the mycustomstuff folder and just houses the model and skin files directly.

This way if the user is unsure whether they've already downloaded the models or not, they can just unzip the level-specific zip files. Files they have already downloaded will simply be overwritten with the same contents (or skipped if the user desires) during the unzipping process.

I do think that, although no longer necessary in the new system, it's probably still better for level creators to supply a level-specific zip file for custom stuff just as they do now.

Kaboom! · Post by **Kaboom!** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:49 am

Will it be a browse button in the editor?