The Wonderland Board

Thanks Loirae for the hint using the keyboard. I don't quite understand how, but it works.
(I also tried to use the other crab too, but I couldn't get him back to the middle island.)

Another one......

Holy Tomatoe Pie.......I can't even get the red crab goose to go up Towards! the yellow button......! I think I can figure out how to get the stinker (red crab dude) to stay on the yellow deal....and all of that, thanks to video and text, but the video does not show the route that Stinky has to travel to get him to go straight up! he keeps going over to the left and into the water.

Just a Hint...huh?

And what's not clear about the text?

Go from the intersection down and around to chase the crab exactly on the intersection. (If you go one step at a time and back immediately, you can let the crab also go one step at a time) Walk back around and chase the crab into the water.

I went down and walked one step at a time...and backed up....that is how I took it what the text meant...and all is well until that critter goes one tile beyond the intersection and then of course, I can not get him on the intersection again....

Your text...if it was yours is great....I just am having a dizzy spell again.....


Maybe it is getting time for a Nap

Thanks

I realize now, there's actually an easier way. Just walk right and follow the crab all the way around. But sometimes you need to do it that way, using the keyboard, walk forth and back immediately to let the crab walk one step at a time. Especially with the logs.

And if the crab walk too far, just save after each step.

Thanks! I will "get er done" as the truckers say.... ..although I am not one of them....

I DID IT I DID IT I DID IT

Congratulations!!!

Oh I just don't get why people don't understand how simply the crabs work! Right from the start, I figured out how they work, so why do people ever have trouble with it? I don't get it.

Marinus wrote:Thanks Loirae for the hint using the keyboard. I don't quite understand how, but it works.
(I also tried to use the other crab too, but I couldn't get him back to the middle island.)

If you would like to know, it's because, from a mouse click, the game has to calculate the fastest route to get to the location. From a key press, the game knows immediately which direction you're asking it to go in.

Gold Raven wrote:but the video does not show the route that Stinky has to travel to get him to go straight up! he keeps going over to the left and into the water.

Marinus wrote: I realize now, there's actually an easier way. Just walk right and follow the crab all the way around.

Exactly! That's why I didn't show that bit in the video.

mqdar wrote: .. it's because, from a mouse click, the game has to calculate the fastest route to get to the location. From a key press, the game knows immediately which direction you're asking it to go in.

Thanks! That's a quite logical explanation.

About crabs, I think it's because they act a bit different then critters. Sometimes they walk away until they are more then 3 tiles away from you, and sometimes they keep sitting 3 tiles away. Beside that, it doesn't seem to make difference if they're only 3 tiles away from you:
- either 3 tiles away horizontally or vertically
or
- both horizontally and vertically 3 tiles away

Also when a crab is walking from you, and it's 3 tiles right-below you, and there is something in the way 4 tiles right-below you, it's random if the crab goes to the place 3 right - 4 below or 4 right - 3 below.

All these things make they seem pretty unpredictable

popo wrote:Exactly! That's why I didn't show that bit in the video.

Ok

Maybe in this case you'd better shown it in the video But after all everyone can do it, no matter which way. In a text solution I can say: "you can do it this way, but also that way", but that's with a video a bit more work

You know? It really never crossed my mind not to follow the crab round , but you have a much more analytical mind than me so you can spot the alternate ways better. I'll have to stop taking it for granted that everyone will do these parts the same as me.

I just walked left, down, up. All the way around, chasing the crab and then *I* stopped at the intersection which is 3 tiles out from where you want the crab to be. He'll automagically go in the water at the correct space.

Interesting yous guys.

And to Marinus - I posted a How to Wrangle Red Crabs, but it's within a help request. I think I'll have to adapt it for Mette's website. Maybe even create a new post since so many hae problems with them. hmmmm...

popo wrote:You know? It really never crossed my mind not to follow the crab round , but you have a much more analytical mind than me so you can spot the alternate ways better. I'll have to stop taking it for granted that everyone will do these parts the same as me.

Thanks, but like I said before: I realized just yesterday that chasing the crab around is easier then the way I did it.

Having a different way of thinking has its good side but also its bad side. Sometimes I see something that most people don't see, but it also happens that I simply don't see something that's obvious for most people.

Loirae wrote:I posted a How to Wrangle Red Crabs, but it's within a help request. I think I'll have to adapt it for Mette's website. Maybe even create a new post since so many hae problems with them. hmmmm...

Yes that may be a good idea. Where did you post that?
(But actually Darshan should do. For him crabs are piece of cake )

Marinus you are right about me.

Marinus wrote:Also when a crab is walking from you, and it's 3 tiles right-below you, and there is something in the way 4 tiles right-below you, it's random if the crab goes to the place 3 right - 4 below or 4 right - 3 below.

All these things make they seem pretty unpredictable

What?! You have me (finally) confused! Ok, I think I understand now.

They're not random. A crab won't get scared by you if you're 3 tiles away from it, but if it's 'on the run', then it will try to get 4 tiles away from you. If you scare it, and immediately run in the opposite direction, it will only move one tile away. That's not random.

Maybe it's because I program...

I think what Marinus was talking about was the case where the crab (or scritters for that matter) cannot go in its preferred direction, and the two remaining choices are equally far away from Stinky. It will randomly choose one of the two choices. For example:
where S is Stinky, c is crab/scritter, W is a wall, and the - are floor tiles. If Stinky moves one tile to the right, normally the crab would also want to go right. But it can't do that because of the wall, so the two remaining choices to get away from Stinky are either going up or going down. Both choices are equidistant from Stinky, so it's random whether the crab will go up or down in that case.

cbloopy wrote: so it's random whether the crab will go up or down in that case.

And sometimes he goes up, and sometimes down. That's the same with scritters, if you try to get him up, and he goes down, then you try again, and suddenly he changes direction

Yes, exactly that's what I meant.

Well in that case then, if you want him to go up, don't go one step closer to him, go one step down first and then closer to him. They are quite obedient if you treat em right .... and if they aren't, get em in a pan of boiling water, yummy!

Popo, that's if you have possibilitys of doing that. If your only choice is going in only one direction, then it's a 50-50 whether it goes up or down. That's what I ment anyway

Oh. I thought Marinus might have meant that.
Marinus, why did you make it sound so complicated?

Well, I'm still right ( ) because it happens with scritters too.


P.S...st, There's a bug with the crabs, MS! You should fix it. It makes a crab run away from you when there's only 2 tiles between you and the crab.

Darshan I tried to make it sound exactly as complicated as it is. I'm not sure if I succeeded. But you're right: I was talking about a situation that the crab is diagonal toward you. And I think I'd better keep it horizontal like cbloopy did.

About the bug you're talking about; if it's in this level then I think to know what you mean, and it's no bug.

See the screenshot. The crab is 3 tiles away from you and it's sitting still. So if you walk up 1 tile, it's still 3 tiles away, so it should be stay still, isn't it?
No way! As a matter of fact it's not really sitting still. It wants to run away from you, but there's nowhere to go, because there's a wall left of it and a yellow gate above it, so it stays where it is.
But when you walk up 1 tile, the crab can go down, away from you, and it does. However, if you walk down first until you're 4 tiles lower then the cab, and then walk up in horizontal line with the crab (3 tiles right of it) it will stay.

Did I make it complicated enough now?

Salin wrote:Popo, that's if you have possibilitys of doing that. If your only choice is going in only one direction, then it's a 50-50 whether it goes up or down. That's what I ment anyway

You're right Inger, but maybe if you put a pan with boiling water at 1 of the 2 places......

Marinus wrote: Darshan I tried to make it sound exactly as complicated as it is. I'm not sure if I succeeded. But you're right: I was talking about a situation that the crab is diagonal toward you. And I think I'd better keep it horizontal like cbloopy did.

Yes Marinus, exactly. Like (cb)Loopy did.
Why did you try to explain the diagonal situation?

About the bug you're talking about; if it's in this level then I think to know what you mean, and it's no bug.

See the screenshot. The crab is 3 tiles away from you and it's sitting still. So if you walk up 1 tile, it's still 3 tiles away, so it should be stay still, isn't it?
No way! As a matter of fact it's not really sitting still. It wants to run away from you, but there's nowhere to go, because there's a wall left of it and a yellow gate above it, so it stays where it is.
But when you walk up 1 tile, the crab can go down, away from you, and it does. However, if you walk down first until you're 4 tiles lower then the cab, and then walk up in horizontal line with the crab (3 tiles right of it) it will stay.

Did I make it complicated enough now?

Oh I get it now! Thanks.
Yeah you do think differently. My idea was, "If the crab's 'on the run', then it will keep trying to escape from you until it can't move any longer." Well, you could blame programming for that, because I never considered your idea because I assumed that my way was the way that crabs were programmed. So, I'm wrong (for once ).

Conceptually, the crab gets agitated when you are less than 3 tile units away from it. When it is agitated it will try to move away until it is at least 4 tile units away from you, at which point it will calm down again.

In the case you're thinking of, the crab stopped moving temporarily only because you've backed it into a corner, but it's certainly still very agitated. Only when you back off to 4 tile units away will it calm down and allow you to get as close as 3 tile units to it.

mqdar wrote:Marinus, why did you make it sound so complicated

mqdar wrote:Why did you try to explain the diagonal situation?

Well I think to answer your question:

mqdar wrote:Oh I just don't get why people don't understand how simply the crabs work! Right from the start, I figured out how they work, so why do people ever have trouble with it? I don't get it.

If someone, who don't understand a bit of those crabs, would have asked, I probably would have tried to make it seem so easy as possible, but since you say it's all so easy and you don't understand why other people have trouble with it, I thought I'd better could make it seem a bit more complicated.

After all, when you know how to do, everything in Wonderland is very easy (except very fast and tricky timed moves) but when you start to play a new level, it can seem very complicated. And as a matter of fact a computer is a very dumb thing; the only thing it can do is 1+1=10. So actually a computerprogram should be very easy. But if you want to understand every aspect of a single computerprogram .... Be my guest!

Marinus wrote:...but since you say it's all so easy and you don't understand why other people have trouble with it, I thought I'd better could make it seem a bit more complicated.

Oh, so you want to give me a challenge?

After all, when you know how to do, everything in Wonderland is very easy (except very fast and tricky timed moves) but when you start to play a new level, it can seem very complicated. And as a matter of fact a computer is a very dumb thing; the only thing it can do is 1+1=10. So actually a computerprogram should be very easy. But if you want to understand every aspect of a single computerprogram .... Be my guest!

Well, all these Wonderland games are computer programs, and computer programs can program all this complex stuff. But, all they're doing is programming how each thing works. They don't understand the complexity or the goal of the situation they've created.

Yes, when it comes down to it, a computer is very dum. All it's doing is the simplest stuff, but all these commands are weaved together into a very complicated knot. Think of Conway's Game of Life.

Omg we are going so off-topic.

mqdar wrote:Oh, so you want to give me a challenge?

.......

Omg we are going so off-topic.

Oh no, no challenge. I only tried to tell, why some people have trouble with crabs.

And indeed, to do so, I went a bit off-topic.