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New Level -- No Way Out
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:49 pm
by Muzozavr
I have finally managed to figure out an idea and make a level out of it.
It's
way more nervewracking than I thought it would be.
Originally I envisioned it as a fairly simple puzzle with a nice trick to make it more difficult to figure out... and some misdirection to make the setup less obvious. The result, however... you have to see it to believe it. And it doesn't even look that hard at first... but once you try... you find out.
Not that I couldn't ease it up... I
chose not to.
You won't believe my deathcount during the testing stage. Each particular "timing moment" is not that hard by itself... but there are more of them than you'd think possible to design in such a small space.
The teleporter puzzle is a breather -- it's puzzling, but at least you can't really mess it up.
Just make sure to collect all the coins in there before going ahead to cover the yellow button.
Conveyor button 1 is under the box near the blue timer. Conveyor timer 1 is in plain sight.
EDIT: If you want to play a more challenging version of this level, one that forces my original solution plus adds a small timing difficulty to the mix, download the "A" version. It has a barrel near the red gate.
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:34 pm
by Marinus
Wow! You didn't say too much. Great level. Thanks!
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:39 pm
by Muzozavr
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:01 pm
by Marinus
Yes. And also the misdirection. First I was still trying one thing, but I could not succeed. Then I tried something else, which was even more "nervewracking", and then finally I got it.
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:08 pm
by Amnon
Thanks for the fun!!! Great fun - and great misdirection!
No Way Out
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:34 pm
by doodlebug
Can you tell me if I kill the ufo or keep him alive for some reason. I have been killing him and then going to get the coins in the teleporter room then can't get back out. Help me out with the first part please.
Thanks
Annie
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:45 pm
by Amnon
Can you tell me if I kill the ufo or keep him alive for some reason
You need the UFO to destroy a certain object. Once it has done its mission you can kill it.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:01 pm
by Marinus
If the level is only to be played at one way (and I think it is) then the UFO is also needed for another thing, but that's also in the beginning of the level.
If you were trying to use the UFO to go back from the left area to the first area, that's what I tried too first, but I could not find a way to do that.
Finally I found a way to use a woodbox for that purpose.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:05 pm
by Amnon
Sorry Marinus, I forgot about that other earlier use for the UFO - I tried just the same as you first, but couldn't do without it.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:08 pm
by Muzozavr
Marinus:
Oooookaaaaay... seems you've found a shortcut for a certain part, please tell me what did you do.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:12 pm
by Amnon
Oooookaaaaay... seems you've found a shortcut for a certain part, please tell me what did you do.
I believe I've done the same:
Use the UFO on the very left-top corner to take the coin on trampoline, then cover the yellow and red buttons, let the UFO blow the exit-box, then kill the UFO by stepping on-off the red , then one box to the top-left corner, the other on the red button. Simple...
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:17 pm
by Muzozavr
It's all intended up until the "cover the red and yellow buttons" I presume you meant green instead of yellow.
But there are only two boxes that can be used, the third one immediately gets destroyed to free the UFO... so you ONLY have boxes on the two buttons. And the green button is in the corner, so there's nothing you can do with that. Therefore, to get a box in top left you'd have to put it off the red button...
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:21 pm
by Amnon
I presume you meant green instead of yellow.
Sorry, I've got that problem that I cannot tell the difference between yellow and light-green.
And...
No, I've never lost a box, always had 3 boxes at my disposal, never thought I should - or can afford to - lose one.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:29 pm
by Muzozavr
Oh wait, now I know... Never in a million years would I think you can take the coin at the start and survive... but apparently, you can. So now I know another trick to add to my level designer's arsenal!
I don't have the time to make a revised version, but let me tell you right away that this was definitely not supposed to happen. The intended solution starts with freeing the UFO from the left. You should not have three boxes.
For a "simple" revised version I guess you could just remove the wooden box in the editor, because that's the way you have to free the UFO... but I do want to make my revised version a bit more elegant.
Again, the first part, if you want to see the level in it's intended difficulty, should be solved with two boxes only.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:29 pm
by Marinus
I already had answered your PM, but now I see you're talking about the same thing here. I'm pretty sure that I played it the same way as Amnon did,
and if it's intended to get the UFO to the top-left corner when the box is already at the left side, it must be extremely hard.
I will take a look at it again.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:31 pm
by Amnon
I also saw how that was possible, it is all clear - but too many tries, I'll try it again sometime later.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:43 pm
by Muzozavr
When I find time, I'll make a revised version that is a bit nicer than just taking out the bottom box. In the meantime, do try the intended way also.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:50 pm
by bob roest
I'm glad somebody figured this out because I can't. The UFO keeps blowing up the box I need and I don't see a way to trap him anywhere. I supppose I could drop a metal box on him if I could keep him above the red button area or am I not supposed to get back to the exit, is that the 'no way out'?
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:26 pm
by Marinus
Ok, I played the way with only 2 boxes too. Also a great challenge; Thanks!
Bob wrote:I supppose I could drop a metal box on him if I could keep him above the red button area
That's right.
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:11 pm
by bob roest
I was all set to enter the left area but I'm having far too many timing issues with the UFO/red button and I've run out of restarts.
Sorry,
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:45 pm
by Muzozavr
bob roest wrote:and I've run out of restarts.
Have some extras:
restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart restart
(Why is it that my sense of evil humor is always
so much better when I'm half-asleep...
)
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:45 pm
by Marinus
Don't worry, I have the same sense of humor once I've had a few bottles of beer / glasses of wine.
Get 1 box to the right place, let other box be shot
TI1 (timing issue 1) Stand above still-standing conveyor. When UFO is right-below Stinky go RD.
3rd box left of left Y TP, step D
TI2 When UFO goes D, step U, when it goes R step L.
Get that box left of left red TP
TI3 When UFO goes U 1 before top row, go L through red TP to get coin on tramp, without UFO shoots box.
Box on green. other box right of right Y TP
TI4 Stand right-above still-standing conveyor. when UFO goes left, go right, when it goes up, go down
Box on red
TI5 Let UFO shoot box right of exitgate.
Box on still-standing conveyor. when UFO goes D right of right tramp, activate timer
TI6 and 7 When UFO is left of left red TP, push box U, Next time push it U again on red button
TI8 Before pushing the box on the blue timer, use the Alt-X keys to zoom out, to watch the UFO not shooting the box.
8 timing issues, good luck!
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:55 pm
by Muzozavr
Yes, exactly how I planned for it to be, and the only way to solve the level if you do not do the "coin thievery"
at the beginning.
Except I did not actually use Alt-X for TI8. If you're careful, Shift+arrows are enough.
I suppose I could place a barrel two tiles to the right of the UFO for a revised version... it would make the timing even more tricky though, as you'd have to walk around the other side to push the box from below, and the other side is guarded by the UFO.
I don't really want to just remove the bottom box, it would be such an inelegant way to close off the unintended solution... But seriously, I would never think you can actually take the coin in such a situation. Better double-check everything in the future I guess.
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:10 am
by Marinus
Except I did not actually use Alt-X for TI8. If you're careful, Shift+arrows are enough.
True, but I think using the Alt-X makes it a bit easier.
Perhaps adding a barrel would be a good way to make it only one way possible. But I would not worry about that. You made a level with two ways to solve, which are both very challenging. So actually you created 2 challenging levels. Great job!
If you want to edit it, and make it only one way possible, go ahead, but I wouldn't bother about that.
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:38 am
by Marinus
Oh but I only want to recommend to change the title into "Two ways out" (I'm getting the same sense of humor now
)
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:44 am
by Muzozavr
The real problem is that it's now possible to get the top coin without using the UFO by using two boxes then shooting one, thus combining ways 1 and 2 into a separate way 3. Since the exact way to take the top coin was the main idea that the level started with, I do not want it to be useless.
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:50 pm
by Marinus
Ok, I also played the one with the barrel. Was a bit harder then the other one. Thanks!