WA1: "Adventures done Adventurously" project topic

Yzfm · Post by **Yzfm** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:56 pm

Nope, I've just replayed WA1 and I can confirm that Out of Sight doesn't give you any extra mushroom keys. The only mushroom key you get from dizzy is when you first talk to him.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:02 pm

Yzfm wrote:Nope, I've just replayed WA1 and I can confirm that Out of Sight doesn't give you any extra mushroom keys. The only mushroom key you get from dizzy is when you first talk to him.

Wow. I was sadly mistaken, then.

No good replacement for Firing Squad, then, except for getting all the way to Patooters and that might take even longer.

Yzfm · Post by **Yzfm** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:57 pm

Muzozavr wrote:
Yzfm wrote:Nope, I've just replayed WA1 and I can confirm that Out of Sight doesn't give you any extra mushroom keys. The only mushroom key you get from dizzy is when you first talk to him.
Wow. I was sadly mistaken, then. No good replacement for Firing Squad, then, except for getting all the way to Patooters and that might take even longer.

Actually, if one generally knows Chomper Cave and doesn't mind the darkness, it will be way faster (you can use the diamond buttons to kill the chomper by raising the bridge and then deactivating it when he's on them). I mean, my best on firing squad was 00:01:41 (any%) as opposed to 00:00:47 on Chomper Cave.

Also, I've seen parts of the speed run, it looks quite good, but there are two notes (till now) for possible improvement:

1. On Double lock, you can just pop the buttons instead of manually pressing them

2. In firing squad, I'm not certain, but I think making the fireflowers kill themselves in the square ice wall room to the right is faster than using star magic. Then again I may be wrong.

Other than that, pretty impressive so far

billy bob · Post by **billy bob** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:11 pm

What Yzfm said. Stop doing Firing Squad.

Do Chomper Cave instead! Why would you do Firing Squad and not Chomper Cave? Oh wait, is it because you buy the lamp on the way back from getting the red shard? *checks video* Nope. I recommend just buying the lamp and large inventory as soon as you get access to, and do Chomper Cave instead of Firing Squad, and I even get the key from Patooters instead of Pop Springs but that may not be faster I'll time it later.

Also do Treasure Springs instead of Chasm Chase.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:10 pm

Doing Treasure Springs instead of Chasm Chase is not only a time-saver, but a sanity-saver as well, Chasm Chase can kill runs easily.

Also, do you need to use two scritters on "Stoppers"? I think it should work just fine with one... the other transporter slides past the "blocking" spot and all is fine.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:40 pm

I figured out that on "The Pump House" you can approach the spikeball, then go up-right-down instead of waiting for it to pass by, this saves no time but it's easier to do.

Also I did an individual level run for it with a time of 1:11, maybe I'd get 1:10 if I was braver at the top right fire, but meh. It's a very dangerous route, though, I don't recommend doing it in a whole-game run, it's not worth the risk.

billy bob · Post by **billy bob** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:10 pm

Muzozavr wrote:Also, do you need to use two scritters on "Stoppers"? I think it should work just fine with one... the other transporter slides past the "blocking" spot and all is fine.

No, if you stop one of the blockers then the other one will just block it. However, I did find one way of completing the adventure without using both Scritters. *adds to guide*

Muzozavr wrote:Some tricks are to be learned precisely if you want to use them. You wasted way more time by messing up on your first few attempts to avoid Wysp's cutscene. This is also a note for myself, should I ever attempt to do this. It seems like this trick is harder than it looks.

No offense, but I practiced this and I get it absolutely every time.

Watching the video Qloof234, here are some tips

:
1. At the point where you are trying to talk to Morklin and keep him in his study, you are moving left way to late. Move left at the exact point when Morklin has just committed from the space above to moving onto the space northwest of you. You seem to do it at the last moment before Morklin is about to move left of you. This won't work.
2. You messed up the movement onto the adventure star. This isn't knowledge so I haven't got anything to say on this except well done on realising that it wouldn't work and reloading the save.
3. You forgot to move down immediately after completing the adventure. You have to remember to move immediately down after completing the adventure and immediately up when returning after The Red Shard (although you would immediately move up anyway).
4. One doesn't need to wait on the bridges and at the points where Morklin won't be able to walk round you. I understand that if one hasn't tested this themselves then they'd want to play it safe and make sure that Morklin returns to his spot but if you just move straight to the adventure star, then straight down after the adventure star, then straight up after returning then it will always work.
5. After returning and you were on the lower bridge and Morklin was two spaces right of you then you didn't need to get him below you to speak to him. Without moving again one can simply just click on him while he is there and the dialogue will start. Morklin will start to move round you but unless you wait ages on the dialogue box then his dialogue won't get interrupted by his other one and it will be fine to just skip through it and collect the key.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:41 pm

No, if you stop one of the blockers then the other one will just block it. However, I did find one way of completing the adventure without using both Scritters. *adds to guide*

Gah, I knew I did it with only one scritter, but I didn't remember the exact details. Yes, your solution is what I meant.

*all about the cutscene skip*

Nice to know that it's not as hard as I thought, I was a bit scared after seeing Q's struggles, to be honest.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:36 am

Muzozavr wrote:And wait, how do you squeeze four keys out of "Out of Sight"? That annotation is a bit confusing. I think you mean the room in its entirety, but the wording is a bit strange. Anyway, I'm watching the rest of the added annotations right now.

Yeah, I did mean the entire room. Not like it actually works, apparently... Oh well.

Also, yes, the Firing Squad catastrophe was the Fireflower's fault.

As for the cutscene skip, yeah, it isn't that hard. I just kept screwing up the timing while recording.

Re: Treasure Springs - Good call, definitely worth remembering to do instead. Same with Chomper Cave, I just didn't do that one because I don't like pitch-black adventures, even with the lamp.

billy bob wrote:Watching the video Qloof234, here are some tips :
1. At the point where you are trying to talk to Morklin and keep him in his study, you are moving left way to late. Move left at the exact point when Morklin has just committed from the space above to moving onto the space northwest of you. You seem to do it at the last moment before Morklin is about to move left of you. This won't work.

Will keep that in mind, thanks.
2. You messed up the movement onto the adventure star. This isn't knowledge so I haven't got anything to say on this except well done on realising that it wouldn't work and reloading the save.
3. You forgot to move down immediately after completing the adventure. You have to remember to move immediately down after completing the adventure and immediately up when returning after The Red Shard (although you would immediately move up anyway).
4. One doesn't need to wait on the bridges and at the points where Morklin won't be able to walk round you. I understand that if one hasn't tested this themselves then they'd want to play it safe and make sure that Morklin returns to his spot but if you just move straight to the adventure star, then straight down after the adventure star, then straight up after returning then it will always work.

Ooh, really? Good to know. Thanks.
5. After returning and you were on the lower bridge and Morklin was two spaces right of you then you didn't need to get him below you to speak to him. Without moving again one can simply just click on him while he is there and the dialogue will start. Morklin will start to move round you but unless you wait ages on the dialogue box then his dialogue won't get interrupted by his other one and it will be fine to just skip through it and collect the key.

Yeah, I was doing that because I didn't want to get stuck by the dialogue being interrupted, I'm not the fastest at click-mashing.

Comments in bold.

billy bob · Post by **billy bob** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:18 am

Qloof234 wrote:Yeah, I was doing that because I didn't want to get stuck by the dialogue being interrupted, I'm not the fastest at click-mashing.

There really is a lot of time, you would have to be ridiculously slow to miss it and you're definitely not that slow judging by the video.

Also, I mash enter instead of mouse clicking.

I just did my first run and got 1:24:22.

Had to refer to my guide twice, made a few mistakes, including the worst possible mistake you could make in an adventure in this run. Pyramid, played through the left side, then did all the Scritter/Spikeyball rubbish but had to restart the whole adventure again because I forgot to press the yellow button.

Going to do another run...

billy bob · Post by **billy bob** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:28 am

1:07:20

A few mistakes, the biggest "mistake" being in Chomper Cave when the Chomper got me while I was being sprung around.

Maybe save just before walking onto the spring to be safe.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:38 am

Based on the tricks and timesaves we have right now, I'm kinda curious - Is less than an hour feasible?

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:28 am

DP

Jdl has informed me of a program called WSplit, which is a tool designed for speedrunning. You can split parts of the game into different "splits", tracking your best time for them individually. It also tracks hotkey presses even when unfocused. You can find it on Google pretty easily, but here's the page I downloaded it from.

The splits I have set up are:

Orange Shard
Indigo Shard 1
Indigo Shard 2
Red Shard
Rainbow Pool
Green Shard
Yellow Shard
Purple Shard

I think Jdl's also got another split for making a save file for the white magic glitch, but I'm not using that one personally.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:45 am

TP combo! Again~!

Playing Treasure Springs and Chomper Cave instead of Chasm Chase and Firing Squad, respectively, as well as some general movement optimization (though there were still a few adventure restarts and dumb mistakes)...

Didn't record it this time, I'm feeling tired. Also, WSplit is a very useful program, I recommend it for speedruns.

jdl · Post by **jdl** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:58 pm

Qloof234 wrote:I think Jdl's also got another split for making a save file for the white magic glitch, but I'm not using that one personally.

Yup, it's so that I don't forget to do it.

I haven't tried doing runs yet though but I will soon.

For the curious, here's what my splits look like:

If you want the little icons to use for your splits I've attached them below.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:35 pm

I'm still kind of wondering if less than an hour is feasible. I mean, from when I proposed the basic any% route to now, the fastest time has dropped by 18 minutes, then 11, then only two.

There's still room for improvement, I'm sure, but the question is how much...

yot yot5 · Post by **yot yot5** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:05 pm

This is just a small suggestion, but did you think of doing Button Me Down in the Forever Forest? If you freeze the wee stinker and kill the spikeyball, that adventure can be completed pretty quickly. Faster than The Swamp and the bridge-building one, I think.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:12 pm

Personally, I'm not going to, because I can never get the timing right on Button Me Down. Swamped is really quick when done properly, and River Crossing isn't that hard if you can pull off the quick-turn on Brr pads reliably (which I actually can, even though the video I made doesn't make it look like it).

yot yot5 · Post by **yot yot5** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:20 pm

Qloof234 wrote:Swamped is really quick when done properly, and River Crossing isn't that hard if you can pull off the quick-turn on Brr pads reliably (which I actually can, even though the video I made doesn't make it look like it).

Ah, okay.

billy bob · Post by **billy bob** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:08 pm

Button me down is about 1:30.
River Crossings is about 1:10.
The rest that give you a swamp key are about 0:45.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:49 pm

Ooh, forgot to mention it until now, but for billy bob's cutscene skip - while the timing isn't too difficult, another way to try pulling this off is to stand on the tile below Morklin (in front of the hallway so he can't leave), then save and load to trigger the ghost glitch. When he steps onto the same tile as you, move left and start clicking on him immediately.

The timing's not quite as tight as with the regular method, but it isn't quite as fast, as far as I can tell. Still, might be useful.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:30 am

DP

Some notes, putting these together on a relaxed playthrough of the speedrun route.

- Pootsy's dialogue: Choosing the top option every time is the fastest, as it goes through six dialogue boxes. Choosing the bottom option every time gives you 7.
- The collapsing bridge where Pootsy and the Wee Stinkers leave: The tile that triggers this is two spaces north of the bridge itself, next to the small water pool. Stepping onto the tile just west of it (next to the other bridge) triggers an earthquake, but doesn't do anything else. The tile south of it triggers Pootsy's dialogue.
- You can hide inside Jedlic's windmill. It does literally nothing at all, but it's funny.
- Cedric's dialogue: Press the dialogue option six (seven? not 100% sure, i think it's six) times, this should put you at the interchange with 3 options.
- The Sewers: There's one spot here that can be used pretty well for a potential time saver, involving Q-Blinking through a wall (specifically, from where Water Works is to the "transporter receptacle" just below). The important thing is that you can't return via the same route - Instead, you have to Q-Blink through another wall (from the circular room with the grates in an x-shape to the area around the exit from the sewers). I'm not entirely sure if this actually does save time, will look into it.
- Firing Squad: I haven't timed it, but I think successfully pulling off this adventure on one attempt instead of doing Helping Friends might be faster, partially due to Helping Friends being in the furthest corner of the level.

Also, some notes related to initial direction in adventures/hub rooms - this only covers, like, the first 15 minutes of adventures shown in the route video I made, I'll expand on it later.

As a note: The hub rooms don't refer to their .wlv number, but the order you enter them in - so room 4 and room 7 are the same room from different exits, for instance.

room 2: south-west
room 3: south-west
room 4: east
room 5 (cave 1): north
room 6: east
room 7: south-west
room 8 (bridge): east
room 9: south-east
room 10: south-east
room 11: east
room 12 (museum): north
room 13: south
room 14 (sewers): south-west
room 15 (freshwater reservoir room): north-west
room 16 (sewers): south (one tile lol)
room 17: south-west
room 18: south
room 19: south
room 20 (sewers again): west
room 21: east
room 22 (museum): north
room 23: south
room 24: east/north-east
room 25: north
room 26 (mushroom grove): north-east
room 27: east
room 28 (good flower, bad flower): east/north
room 29: north-west
room 30 (chomper cave): north-east
room 31: south-west
room 32 (mushroom grove): north-west
room 33 (red shard cave): north-west
room 34 (mushroom grove again): south-west
room 35: south
room 36: south-west
room 37: north-west
room 38 (museum): north
room 39: south-west
room 40: north-west
room 41: west
room 42: west
room 43 (ruins): south
room 44: east
room 45 (ruins): west
room 46: east

(red shard warp)

room 47: east
room 48: east
room 49 (forest's end): north
room 50: north
room 51: north
room 52: west
room 53: north
room 54: east
room 55 (thwart fortress): north
room 56 (basement): south
room 57 (thwart fortress): south

(green shard warp)

room 58: west
room 59: west
room 60: south-west
room 61: north
room 62: east
room 63 (yellow key room): south
room 64: north-east
room 65: west
room 66: south
room 67 (pyramid): west

(finish pyramid)

room 68: south
room 69: south
room 70 (void): east

stinker rescue pt 1: north-west
stinker rescue pt 2: west
treasure springs: north-east/north-west
passage of fire: east
frostbite cave/1: north
frostbite cave/2: north
scritter control/1: north
scritter control/2: south
scritter control/3: south
the magic gloves: west 1, east 2, west 1, north (east and west are interchangeable here)
hop, skip, and blink: north
fire and ice: east

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:26 pm

TP

So apparently, I have no idea what causes it, but it's possible for The Green Shard to become unbeatable. Even after both towers are destroyed, half of the gates remain closed. At first I thought it was white magic shenanigans, because I used that to destroy a tower on one attempt, but even after reloading a save with both towers intact, the gates never opened.

I'm quite irritated right now because this has cost me a run that might've been very close to being sub-one hour.

Yzfm · Post by **Yzfm** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:46 pm

I discovered that before, and it used to irritate me so much, but that was my pre-forum era, so that's why I never mentioned it.

I'm not sure, but it seems to me that you have to destroy the left station first for the other station to work properly

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:59 pm

Are you sure? I destroyed the left station first, but its gates never lowered.

I'll look into this and see if I can find what's causing it, this is weird.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:21 pm

DP. Figured it out, and... On the bright side, the chances of it happening are very slim. On the bad side, it's not really possible to predict when it'll happen.

Here's what the mechanism looks like, with the giant gates removed for visibility and logic viewable for clarity:

An identical mechanism is on the opposite side of the room. The Chomper keeps the green gate open, preventing either turtle from pressing the Fire button. When the tower's destroyed, the Chomper is killed and the gate closes, making one of the turtles angle onto the button.

The thing is, if your timing is just right, the gate can close on one turtle, killing it, while locking the other one in.

Something to be wary of during runs - Save before getting the Thwart to shoot at the towers, just in case.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:31 pm

So is it possible to Q-blink there and press the button yourself? It would lose time, though.

Man, that's a weird thing to have happened. The chances are slim, indeed, but it's not "preventable" in a proper sense.

billy bob · Post by **billy bob** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:32 pm

Qloof234 - how did you get that picture? Whenever I load a .wlv from WA1 the editor just has a MAV.

It does seem like Blinking left first is more consistent than Blinking right first. Here are some test results:

Left first:

Success
Success
Success
Success
Success
Success
Success
Success
Success
Success

Right first:

Failure
Success
Failure
Success
Success
Success
Success
Failure
Success
Success

Also I'm doing splits now really cool thanks so much.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:49 pm

Cbloopy made a program to convert WA1 .wlv files to the Editor format a few years ago. Here's a direct download link, if you've got some use for it.

As for Blinking into the button corridors, I don't think it's possible, since the corridor is only a tile wide.

On that note...

Yeah, sub-one hour is possible. And there's still room for improvement.

I recorded this run, will be uploading it EDIT: eventually, because someone at SME thought it'd be funny to give my YT account a copyright strike for material that was valid for fair use. Awesome.

(all this means is that the video's going to be split up)

billy bob · Post by **billy bob** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:14 am

Nice one Qloof234!

Can't wait to watch the video.

I got my PB:

Orange Shard: 7:39
Indigo Shard #1: 14:19
Indigo Shard #2: 23:39
Red Shard: 36:12
Rainbow Pool: 42:23
Green Shard: 53:53
Yellow Shard: 1:00:31
Purple Shard: 1:03:32