WA3E - Schrödinger's Bugs (READ FIRST POST)

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:27 am

So, okay. As mentioned in the main WA3 bug topic at one point, the Editor/Player are somewhat odd, in that they seem to behave significantly differently on different machines. Some users encounter bugs that others don't. The name of this topic is a joke based around that.

Because there are just so many bugs that we've taken for granted and so many that we're only just realizing behave differently for different computers, I think it'd be a good idea to have a thread where everyone lists what bugs they've encountered.

It doesn't matter here if it's something someone else has mentioned - If you've encountered that bug yourself, say so anyways - Bugs that are "universal" (i.e. AIOOB when using Flash while 1,1 is empty) will probably be easier for Patrick to fix, while machine-specific ones might not really be possible.

Off the top of my head, some of mine...

Editor
- Opening & saving a dialogue file >101 times causes the Editor to crash when opening it again. This is due to a byte in the file that seems to be related to text formatting that erroneously gets incremented even if the user doesn't actually edit the text.
- Increasing a level's size to >101 in either direction causes the Editor to crash (not a big deal - Levels probably should be well below that limit, really).
- The Glasses option for NPCs is still kind of buggy. If the users scrolls from one set of glasses to another set that has less unique skins/colours, the Editor crashes while trying to find the accessory file.
- Levels with custom level-textures act kind of buggy in the new Editor. If the texture used doesn't exist, instead of loading the level with a default texture (like the old Editor did), the new Editor crashes with the "Can't load ___.png" error. Additionally, if a level with a custom texture is loaded, trying to scroll through the level-texture options commonly results in a crash. Right-clicking the level texture option then pressing enter seems to alleviate this issue.
- NOT A BUG, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT THIS IS: On my computer, the "default font" used in the Midnight Vault prompt (the Editor interface font, as well as the font used during ToW's loading sequence) is significantly smaller than what it used to be. Images: What it looks like for other users (picture is Fluffshery's), vs. What it looks like for me. I think this is related due to graphics card shenanigans, but other computers I've used that had GeForce cards haven't done this.
- When adjusting an object's X/Y/ZAdjust value, turning it back to 1.0 after hitting a certain "high limit" (not sure what the exact value is) causes the Editor's display for the value to display nonsense. Probably related to floating point numbers or something - It still behaves fine, the Editor just displays the value incorrectly.

Player
- Starting a Hub doesn't actually properly use the Starting Rotation in the master.dat file. The rotation of the last LevelExit the player stepped on (if they played any adventures before starting the hub) takes priority. I'm not sure if it ignores the Starting Rotation altogether, though.
- If the spell is cast at the right time, Turtles can walk through GrowFlowers.
- On some occasions, NPCs with no dialogue set (0) will change the logic of floor tiles they walk over. I'm not sure what the reason is for this, because it doesn't happen all the time.
- NOT A BUG, BUT LISTED ANYWAYS: Scritters are immune to FireTraps. Other users seem to be getting different results here.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:31 am

don't
FORGET
the solid friggin' black
STRAIGHT SUCTION TUBES
in the editor and player

samuelthx · Post by **samuelthx** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:00 am

About the 1,1 "bug":
IMO I disagree it's a bug at all, and I believe that Patrick wouldn't fix that, since flash was supposed to be used with 1,1 walled up. Besides it does hold some useful potential for puzzles, and prevents certain alternate solutions (like in The End 6).
Also, just to let everyone know, there is a way to "self-fix" that bug by simply placing an inactive Teleporter on (1,1)

Back on topic, I found that re-flashing barrels too near to ghosts cause them to not appear. Not sure if that's a bug though.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:06 am

The fact that the game crashes is a bug, as it's unintended and harmful behaviour. If the game just, sort of... Didn't do anything if 1/1 was blank, then sure.

samuelthx · Post by **samuelthx** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:01 am

Qloof234 wrote:The fact that the game crashes is a bug

I guess that's true in definition.

Qloof234 wrote:, as it's unintended and harmful behaviour.

I'd like to disagree on this, though. What I was trying to say in my previous post is as follows:

While the crash itself may have been unintended, the mechanism that causes the crash is definitely intended. When an object is flashed, it gets teleported to 1,1. The magic is not tied down to the object that was flashed, but to whether there is an object on 1,1. Therefore it is possible to flash something, and re-flash another if the player changes the object on 1,1 before shooting the re-flashing spell. (as exemplified in "Unfair?")

Qloof234 wrote:If the game just, sort of... Didn't do anything if 1/1 was blank, then sure.

By this, do you mean that if there's nothing on 1,1, then shooting a flash spell would not remove the X X status on the gloves? Or do you mean that the game re-flashes nothing?
Both sound great (as in seriously), but then either one of these 2 modifications would have to be made (as far as I can see) :
1. Flash would have to treat a blank tile as an object, which is plain impossible.
2. The entire mechanism of "Flash" would have to be redefined and totally remade. This would alter our entire understanding of flash, and the method of using flash (which is why I say that this bug is "intended" in a twisted sort of way.

I'm not trying to cause a forum argument here, just inputting my opinions

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:03 am

To clarify, when I'm calling it a bug, I'm just referring to the game crashing, insofar as that's an unintended side effect of the way Flash works.

As for "didn't do anything", I mean that so long as the game doesn't crash or do something else it's not supposed to.

Wonderman109 · Post by **Wonderman109** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:45 pm

I think Flash should reset to non-re-type if the flashed object leaves 1,1.

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Thu May 01, 2014 1:30 pm

I have a theory on why some bugs behave differently on different computers. I think it might be based on the operating system. In other words, bugs that occur on Windows 7 computers might not occur in the same way on Windows XP computers.

samuelthx · Post by **samuelthx** » Thu May 01, 2014 1:58 pm

MyNameIsKooky wrote:I have a theory on why some bugs behave differently on different computers. I think it might be based on the operating system. In other words, bugs that occur on Windows 7 computers might not occur in the same way on Windows XP computers.

I thought so too. Perhaps it would be helpful if all of us were to post our operating systems here. I'm using Windows XP SP3.
For me, Scritters die when they touch firetraps.
For me, besides turtles, crabs can walk through Growflowers.

jdl · Post by **jdl** » Thu May 01, 2014 5:06 pm

Scritters die in Firetraps for me too.
I tried it using Windows Vista Home Basic.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Thu May 01, 2014 5:55 pm

Windows 7, scritters die horribly, black suction tubes, ect. ect.

Jutomi · Post by **Jutomi** » Thu May 01, 2014 6:00 pm

I have Windows 7, I don't have black suction tubes.

at least, not unless I want them to look that way.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Thu May 01, 2014 8:32 pm

MyNameIsKooky wrote:I have a theory on why some bugs behave differently on different computers. I think it might be based on the operating system. In other words, bugs that occur on Windows 7 computers might not occur in the same way on Windows XP computers.

That's what I thought at first, but I'm on Windows 7 as well and I'm not getting the bugs that you and Nobody are getting.

FWIW, maybe the OS type has something to do with it as well (ie. 32-bit vs. 64-bit?). I'm on Windows 7 Professional SP 1, 64-bit.

samuelthx · Post by **samuelthx** » Fri May 02, 2014 2:12 pm

Nobody wrote:Windows 7, scritters die horribly, black suction tubes, ect. ect.

Interesting. Looks like only MNIK's editor has fireproof Scritters.

When I played Mr Zurkon's Blockade, the suction tube curves were pitch-black for me, too. I haven't tried adding suction tube curves to levels using my editor though.

StinkerSquad01 · Post by **StinkerSquad01** » Fri May 02, 2014 8:24 pm

Maybe graphics card stuff has to do with the black suction tubes.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Tue May 13, 2014 5:20 pm

So apparently the whole "NPCs with no dialogue create walls" thing is still here, just... not quite as badly.

A moving NPC with no dialogue doesn't seem to create walls, but when I had said NPC step onto an NPC Change command that would give him dialogue, the space he'd been on just before was suddenly unwalkable.

He also didn't have any dialogue, even when I forcibly used the NPC Change command.