Possibly my final rant, and also maybe the most important...
When it all narrows down to it, it's not really a problem with users who don't read the rules as much as it is a problem that very few of these rules are still enforced.
As tyteen said, the language rating on this forum is higher than it's ever been, with multiple swear words despite the fact that the forum is supposed to be kid-friendly. I know I'm guilty of this as well, but either way, when it boils down to it, quite a few rules have been completely forgotten, and the ones that haven't still don't have much impact on anything going on.
Once again, this problem seems to present itself in the fact that there are no moderators or administrators other than Patrick. Granted, at face value it's hard to tell what someone would do with that kind of power, but if you have a forum with this many different users and lots of different discussions, you're likely going to need at least two other mods or admins.
This problem works the other way as well - If there are too many administrators or moderators, then things still tend to go badly, because there are more people that have a lot of control over what happens. Granted, that means more security and enforcement, but having too many can be as bad as not having any.
Of course, the issue of people not reading the rules is still a big problem. Perhaps have the rules be a mandatory read when you sign up, instead of something you can just scroll past? I dunno how to go about doing that, but it's an idea.
Or, you can do what Sonic Retro does - Have a test asking a user about the rules of the forum before they register, and if they have less than X% they fail. Fail multiple times and they can't join.
The other thing Retro does, which would be good on its own, is having a Pending Membership position - They can read all the forums, but can't post in the public topics - with a subforum where said users could create a post saying why they think they should be a member, etc.
Of course, Sonic Retro is pretty bad when it comes to PG13 language and the like, but it's not like the Wonderland Forum has to become like that if it uses the same system.
@ Emerald; I agree, putting a link to this topic will help other users find it at least, and perhaps get Patrick's attention about it. Good idea.
EDIT: Two pages.
As tyteen said, the language rating on this forum is higher than it's ever been, with multiple swear words despite the fact that the forum is supposed to be kid-friendly. I know I'm guilty of this as well, but either way, when it boils down to it, quite a few rules have been completely forgotten, and the ones that haven't still don't have much impact on anything going on.
Once again, this problem seems to present itself in the fact that there are no moderators or administrators other than Patrick. Granted, at face value it's hard to tell what someone would do with that kind of power, but if you have a forum with this many different users and lots of different discussions, you're likely going to need at least two other mods or admins.
This problem works the other way as well - If there are too many administrators or moderators, then things still tend to go badly, because there are more people that have a lot of control over what happens. Granted, that means more security and enforcement, but having too many can be as bad as not having any.
Of course, the issue of people not reading the rules is still a big problem. Perhaps have the rules be a mandatory read when you sign up, instead of something you can just scroll past? I dunno how to go about doing that, but it's an idea.
Or, you can do what Sonic Retro does - Have a test asking a user about the rules of the forum before they register, and if they have less than X% they fail. Fail multiple times and they can't join.
The other thing Retro does, which would be good on its own, is having a Pending Membership position - They can read all the forums, but can't post in the public topics - with a subforum where said users could create a post saying why they think they should be a member, etc.
Of course, Sonic Retro is pretty bad when it comes to PG13 language and the like, but it's not like the Wonderland Forum has to become like that if it uses the same system.
@ Emerald; I agree, putting a link to this topic will help other users find it at least, and perhaps get Patrick's attention about it. Good idea.
EDIT: Two pages.
I have tried to make a bigger response to this for a few minutes now, but I can't explain it well enough... so I'll just ask this:Qloof234 wrote:The other thing Retro does, which would be good on its own, is having a Pending Membership position - They can read all the forums, but can't post in the public topics - with a subforum where said users could create a post saying why they think they should be a member, etc.
Why would having this feature be particularly useful?
dlcs18
Because then you can judge whether a user is worthy of having forumite status - Do they appear to be nice? Are their reasons convincing? Do they use way too many smilies in their posts? Etc.
Granted, a user could act nice for their introductory post and then start acting like a jerk afterward, but either way it still helps.
Granted, a user could act nice for their introductory post and then start acting like a jerk afterward, but either way it still helps.
It can push some people away though - some people (me *shot*) find it hard to construct posts about "why I should be a member" and stuff.
I think a better alternative is to be able to post freely, but only, say, 10 posts at maximum. Then when an admin/mod comes he will check the posts and determine whether the user should be able to continue posting.
I think a better alternative is to be able to post freely, but only, say, 10 posts at maximum. Then when an admin/mod comes he will check the posts and determine whether the user should be able to continue posting.
dlcs18
Well, When I came to this forum, I think I gonna do like kecpero.
When I know What Myself do, I change my mind.
Starting with some fun, With Wonderland, And Wonderland Adventures, Possible WA Editor, I think it Should Help and Save the Forum.
Also, If you want To make forum games, Please Make at least one. Beacuse MS might Tell Something like "There is already ______ Discussions Topic. - Please limit other game discussions to one topic each, Thank you!".
When I know What Myself do, I change my mind.
Starting with some fun, With Wonderland, And Wonderland Adventures, Possible WA Editor, I think it Should Help and Save the Forum.
Also, If you want To make forum games, Please Make at least one. Beacuse MS might Tell Something like "There is already ______ Discussions Topic. - Please limit other game discussions to one topic each, Thank you!".
I didn't live ANYWHERE in the world!
~Anonymous.
Wait, It isn't possible!
~Anonymous.
Wait, It isn't possible!
- tyteen4a03
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LANGUAGE ALERT *shot*Qloof234 wrote:Because then you can judge whether a user is worthy of having forumite status - Do they appear to be nice? Are their reasons convincing? Do they use way too many smilies in their posts? Etc.
Granted, a user could act nice for their introductory post and then start acting like a jerk afterward, but either way it still helps.
I don't think Test membership will work on phpBB2 (not sure) but it will work at vB3/4 for sure. I am not going to add it into WonderForum though because it is against the idea of "innocent until proven guility"
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That was a very old rule because at that time we don't have fast internet. Gonna remove my sig image anyways.popo wrote:Oldie butting in here ...
Talking of breaking the rules, a lot of you appear to have an avatar and a signature image, which is AGAINST THE RULES.
Oldie out ...
That reminds me of an idea of a total rules rewrite....
- DEEMAN223344
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Didn't MS remove that rule long before I even joined? I don't remember seeing it in the forum rules, and I remember seeing that poll topic about sig images and avatars. Besides, tyteen is right, the forum sever was upgraded to be faster.popo wrote:Oldie butting in here ...
Talking of breaking the rules, a lot of you appear to have an avatar and a signature image, which is AGAINST THE RULES.
Oldie out ...
- Kabooms Rock
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sorry i dont know the proper way to add comments so I am just going to post comments in this /\
off topic: what happened to cbloopy?Qloof234 wrote:Like I said on Skype - I can say that I honestly feel the same way.
Back a long time ago, before Wonderland Adventures, there were very few non-English speakers on the forum, or at least very few people who didn't understand it. Compare it to now, when there are quite a few who don't understand it and get enraged when someone points it out (not naming anyone here).
I can't honestly say that I'm optimistic about the forum's path - the forum rules seem to have faded into obscurity, because I'm seeing some of them broken on a regular basis with no action taken by anyone except for the users saying it's not nice or anything. I'm sorry, Patrick, but I really think that we need a few more admins or maybe moderators on this forum. /I agree\
I understand that my response to this post may very well be my last as well - be it my decision to leave, or be it banned from the forums. However, I think this is a serious problem that should be addressed, because the original charm that the forum had to begin with has been completely lost, if not demolished - I see very few of the older users posting these days, and even less people who follow the rules as much as the older users did. /once again I agree\
I'll admit as well - I was once very immature and made lots of mistakes. That was 6 years ago, and now I know better than that. I know that it feels bad to be talked to roughly if you're young, and I still feel somewhat guilty for some of my past mistakes. However, what's happening now with lots of newer users who don't pay attention to the rules or double-post endlessly is going beyond a small problem. It's tearing the forum to pieces. /agree 100%\
Despite everything that's gone right for our Forum, it's not going to be able to handle the amount of stress happening at this point in time. Soon enough, it'll be at a make it or break it point, where experienced users begin to leave and there are more users who don't pay attention. I can think of multiple reasons why we'd want to avoid that. /agree 150%\
Don't think I have something against younger people joining - I don't. What I do have a problem with is the fact that the forum rules, which at first were enforced very strictly, have fallen into obscurity. When I said that I see some of the rules broken regularly, I wasn't exaggerating or making that up. The former double-post rule is literally non-existant now, because there are many double-posts made every day. /200% agree\
In my regular life, I'm silly and childish, and I know it. Just because of that doesn't mean I have to act like the same person on the forum. I feel like a completely different person on this forum, and it's one of the greatest senses of belonging I've ever felt. I've always been an outcast - be it at school, or at camp, or anything - and this forum is one of the only places I feel like I belong at. I don't want that to change. Ever. /no words to say how much i agree with this\
Unfortunately, the way that things are right now, it looks like it's going to change very soon, regardless of how I feel. To be perfectly honest, I really feel like some serious action is needed, because I don't see anything happening to prevent this forum's downfall. /I agree again\
I don't want to be there to see it happen - I want it to be stopped before it's too late. /me too\
I'm aware that I could lose my posting privileges after this. However, if it means the forum will become a better place, in my opinion it's worth the risk. /me to\
That's all I have to say for now... and maybe forever.
Last edited by Kabooms Rock on Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- DEEMAN223344
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...and I always forget that ruleBlast!10 wrote:Haha, very good point popo. I seem to be the only one on this board who has been following this rule all the time.popo wrote:Oldie butting in here ...
Talking of breaking the rules, a lot of you appear to have an avatar and a signature image, which is AGAINST THE RULES.
Oldie out ...
I've followed that rule all this time also. You're never alone.Blast!10 wrote:I seem to be the only one on this board who has been following this rule all the time.
Also, guys, Blast!10 made a signature image that you can put in your signature that links back to this topic. Here's the BBCode.
Code: Select all
[url=http://www.pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20015][img]http://yuvsstuff.net/CH-sof.png[/img][/url]
Last edited by ~xpr'd~ on Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
she/her | Sayori#2285
- DEEMAN223344
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Okay, I will take my avatar off to follow rules.
Edit: When I click my sig image here is what I get:
Edit: When I click my sig image here is what I get:
Warning: include(./extension.inc) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 25
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening './extension.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 25
Warning: include(./common.) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 26
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening './common.' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 26
Warning: include(./includes/bbcode.) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 27
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening './includes/bbcode.' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 27
Fatal error: Call to undefined function attach_setup_viewtopic_auth() in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 148
So do IDEEMAN223344 wrote:Okay, I will take my avatar off to follow rules.
Edit: When I click my sig image here is what I get:Warning: include(./extension.inc) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 25
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening './extension.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 25
Warning: include(./common.) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 26
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening './common.' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 26
Warning: include(./includes/bbcode.) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 27
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening './includes/bbcode.' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 27
Fatal error: Call to undefined function attach_setup_viewtopic_auth() in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 148
and I also get that with ~xpr'd~'s.
Generation 59: Community experiment. The first time you see this, take the generation # and add 1. Put in your signature.
DEEMAN223344 missed the /forum/ section in the link.ben-09 wrote:So do IDEEMAN223344 wrote:Okay, I will take my avatar off to follow rules.
Edit: When I click my sig image here is what I get:Warning: include(./extension.inc) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 25
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening './extension.inc' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 25
Warning: include(./common.) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 26
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening './common.' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 26
Warning: include(./includes/bbcode.) [function.include]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 27
Warning: include() [function.include]: Failed opening './includes/bbcode.' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/lib/php:/usr/local/lib/php') in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 27
Fatal error: Call to undefined function attach_setup_viewtopic_auth() in /home/pcpuzzle/public_html/viewtopic.php on line 148
and I also get that with ~xpr'd~'s.
I didn't check ~xpr'd~'s link, but I suspect the same thing.
Rest in peace, Kym. I hardly knew ya.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
Rest in peace, Marinus. A bright star, you were ahead of me on my own tracks of thought. I miss you.
- MyNameIsKooky
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- tyteen4a03
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aka a total rewrite of the forum rules. Many of the things in the forum rules are outdated.Emerald141 wrote:I think the issue of whether or not to allow sig and avatar images at the same time is immaterial, because it doesn't really pose a threat to the stability of the forum. Can we please focus on the big picture now?
800TH post, take 2.
To be honest, I was wondering the exact same thing. It's less important than the rule to not flame, because flamewars cause people to leave and feel bad about what happened.Emerald141 wrote:I think the issue of whether or not to allow sig and avatar images at the same time is immaterial, because it doesn't really pose a threat to the stability of the forum. Can we please focus on the big picture now?
800TH post, take 2.
For that matter, double-posting isn't that much of an issue either, it's just annoying and sometimes qualifies as spam.
Whether you think a rule is immaterial or not shouldn't matter. If it's a rule it should be followed shouldn't it. You can't just pick and choose which rules to follow and which to ignore.Emerald141 wrote:I think the issue of whether or not to allow sig and avatar images at the same time is immaterial, because it doesn't really pose a threat to the stability of the forum. Can we please focus on the big picture now?
You're ignoring this by having an avatar image and more than 3 lines of text in your signature. You might not think it's important, it's not hurting anyone is it? But it's little things like this that get up people's noses and turn into bigger things, and people start to get nasty.Signature or Avatar Images
Please use either a signature image or an avatar image, not both. If you use
(i) an Avatar Image: this image/animation can be 120x120 pixels large. You may still use a single line of text, but no images or multi-line text for your signature.
(ii) a Signature Image: Please ensure that your signature image/animation are up to 120 pixels long (i.e. vertical). You are also limited to a single line of text before or after the image, but no avatar image or multi-line signature text.
(iii) no Image: if you use neither avatar nor signature image, your signature may be up to three lines of text long.
Double posting isn't actually down in the rules, and the odd double post isn't a bad thing. It's when there are lots of posts in a row from the same person with nothing worth reading in them, and you have to scroll halfway down the page to get to the next one because they have avatars and signature images and multiple lines of text that go on for miles, that it starts to get annoying.
Moderators are needed on the board, Patrick doesn't have the time to read everything on here to see if it's suitable or not. As for bad language, there used to be a filter that turned bad words into Wonderland related words, but a few people found that they couldn't write certain things that out of context were taken as bad words but in context were totally innocent. Patrick decided to remove the filter and trust that everyone would behave themselves, and as most of us were adults at the time it worked well. Maybe it's time for the filter to be brought back again, even if trying to write COCKerel would end up as STINKY.
Pauline
- tyteen4a03
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Another reason we should switch to another forum software. AFAIK vBulletin has a filter system which allows specific filtering, eg:popo wrote: Moderators are needed on the board, Patrick doesn't have the time to read everything on here to see if it's suitable or not. As for bad language, there used to be a filter that turned bad words into Wonderland related words, but a few people found that they couldn't write certain things that out of context were taken as bad words but in context were totally innocent. Patrick decided to remove the filter and trust that everyone would behave themselves, and as most of us were adults at the time it worked well. Maybe it's time for the filter to be brought back again, even if trying to write COCKerel would end up as STINKY.
If I set lol as a word that should be flitered (example only) without making it specific, any words will have their part with lol filtered. If there is a word lolcracker, it would become ***cracker. But if we make the word lol specific, lolcracker lol would become lolcracker *** without affecting the lolcracker word.
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Which is exactly why I took the images out of my signature. I do not think the rule serves a purpose anymore, but it is still a rule (albiet one I was unaware of for a long time.)popo wrote:Whether you think a rule is immaterial or not shouldn't matter. If it's a rule it should be followed shouldn't it. You can't just pick and choose which rules to follow and which to ignore.
As for the other point; I agree, a filter may be a good idea. It would keep the english speakers at least from swearing, and it might cause a laugh. I remember going through the posts of one 'elmopalooza,' who got perma-banned for extreme use of bad words. A filter would have helped there.
On the other hand, the filter might not recognise the words of those who do not speak English correctly. We can't counter that by adding an 'accepted word dictionary,' like several MMORPGs do, 'cuz then how would you type words like 'WA:QT'?
- tyteen4a03
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There isn't anything like a accepted word dictionlary in phpBB2 , it would be too large and will need to be updated very regularly.Emerald141 wrote:Which is exactly why I took the images out of my signature. I do not think the rule serves a purpose anymore, but it is still a rule (albiet one I was unaware of for a long time.)popo wrote:Whether you think a rule is immaterial or not shouldn't matter. If it's a rule it should be followed shouldn't it. You can't just pick and choose which rules to follow and which to ignore.
As for the other point; I agree, a filter may be a good idea. It would keep the english speakers at least from swearing, and it might cause a laugh. I remember going through the posts of one 'elmopalooza,' who got perma-banned for extreme use of bad words. A filter would have helped there.
On the other hand, the filter might not recognise the words of those who do not speak English correctly. We can't counter that by adding an 'accepted word dictionary,' like several MMORPGs do, 'cuz then how would you type words like 'WA:QT'?
Also, only 3 lines are allowed in your signature.