Features You'd Like to See in WA3?

Sammy_P · Post by **Sammy_P** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:08 am

A planet selection area. Click a planet and the space star ship thingy will go to it.

boywhoflies · Post by **boywhoflies** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:55 am

Qloof234 wrote:That'd be awesome.

Speaking of the player character, here's an idea - more eye/shoe colors, or even just separating the two. While there are many combinations possible with the amount of hats and other accessories, being able to select eyes and shoes separately would open up many more possibilities.

Agreed. I'm always wanting to give my pow-wizzard-guy orange shoes.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:21 am

StinkerSquad01 wrote:
Qloof234 wrote:That'd be awesome.

Speaking of the player character, here's an idea - more eye/shoe colors, or even just separating the two. While there are many combinations possible with the amount of hats and other accessories, being able to select eyes and shoes separately would open up many more possibilities.
RGB sliders perhaps? And maybe a leaf storm kind of weather, like wind being simulated, similar to the snows, but with leaves.

RGB sliders would make the options practically endless. That'd be amazing, but having said that, I'm not even sure how easy it would be to separate eye and shoe colors (if I recall correctly, they're stored in the same image as the skin, which is why giving your character Qookie's eyes/shoes make their skin tone a bit darker as well).

As for the leaves, that makes me think of something else - Custom particles. We can already kinda do that by overwriting the file, but... that overwrites the file, which means it's universal. With a properly-implemented custom particles option... thing, we wouldn't have to worry about something like that.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:28 am

Returning to "remappable controls" and other things that may be hard to implement, here's one thing that should be simple and exceptionally useful for many, many players: allow control with both the arrow keys and the WASD buttons. For the mouse/keyboard people who play FPS games, WASD would be amazing. (me? I'd still use arrow keys, I'm used to them...)

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:20 am

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of. I've played so many FPS's that using the arrows and the mouse at the same time feels awkward. If it's just the arrow keys, it works fine, but my wrist feels kinda cramped reaching for both.

I know at one point I used a registry editor to make the WASD keys emulate the arrow keys to see how it worked, and it functioned great. Problem was I had to restart to make the change happened, and I couldn't use any of the WASD keys for typing while it was on, so it just wasn't practical.

|Cookie| · Post by **|Cookie|** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:57 pm

I dreamed when there page 8 from this topic MS said :
WA:POTZ is finished !
You can download it from page 5 .
When i download it and played it i saw this :
First : One stinker dance ! lol
Then : The game is like minecraft . ( the stinkers and the houses ! )
Last : Some crazy things like : Pop is now Pow and Pow is grow something like that !

exhypercube · Post by **exhypercube** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:52 pm

kidkidaaa1 wrote:I dreamed when there page 8 from this topic MS said :
WA:POTZ is finished !
You can download it from page 5 .
When i download it and played it i saw this :
First : One stinker dance ! lol
Then : The game is like minecraft . ( the stinkers and the houses ! )
Last : Some crazy things like : Pop is now Pow and Pow is grow something like that !

I hate when that happens.

|Cookie| · Post by **|Cookie|** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:15 pm

exhypercube wrote:
kidkidaaa1 wrote:I dreamed when there page 8 from this topic MS said :
WA:POTZ is finished !
You can download it from page 5 .
When i download it and played it i saw this :
First : One stinker dance ! lol
Then : The game is like minecraft . ( the stinkers and the houses ! )
Last : Some crazy things like : Pop is now Pow and Pow is grow something like that !

I hate when that happens.

Me too !

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:10 pm

Remappable control is easy, you just assign movements with the key number (can be found here: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AS2LCR/Flas ... 00520.html) and then you are off to go.

Although switching between arrow keys and WASD is usually enough.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:16 pm

I was playing MOFI just now, while I love the challenge, there are minor things that bother me here and there. Aside from the hub world being confusing and huge (this is actually not entirely bad, it feels more like an epic adventure this way) there are also a few moments that are just... unfair.

I have struggled for quite a while with the start of "Within the Ace", a moment that's supposed to be easy but it's actually quite hard and unfair, in a way that fits within the "custom level" mindset but feels out of place in an official set.

At first I didn't even know I could run along with Ace, my fault really, I should have noticed the bridge gives me enough time to run across. However, if you take your time to read the dialogue (like I did) you probably won't be able to notice. So... yeah.

So, once you get past that, you run along with Ace and then you turn the next corridor, BAM ice ball hits you out of nowhere. Reload. You wait, check with Spy-Eye just to be safe and then another ice ball hits you from behind. Reload. You finally get through and then Ace is frozen. Dozens of reloads to avoid that happening in various ways (am I too slow? too fast?) only to find out that the sequence is scripted is destined to happen, making you wonder what the hell are you missing. You look around the entire level, nope, not seeing it.

Turns out that there's those six floor tiles that are different from the rest, and if you step on the marked center one, FIVE FIREFLOWERS POP UP FROM THE GROUND on the other five tiles.

Since the tile was marked, this may have been obvious to the designer, but it isn't obvious to the player. I only did this because of the limited amount of options and when I saw the fireflowers coming out from the ground, I almost facepalmed.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a great game. In fact, it's an epic game. But aside from the fact that MOFI does get hard pretty fast, it's moments like this that can get frustrating if they happen too often. Thankfully, they're mere moments (so far) in a game that's full of challenge, mystery, wonder and cuteness.

LittleZbot · Post by **LittleZbot** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:41 am

To me, Withing an Ace was really easy and my fav level in the game.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:23 am

Yeah, I agree with LittleZbot. The level wasn't all that hard to me. But of course, for the Fireflower part I kind of assumed I would just rescue Ace later on and continued, triggering the Fireflowers by accident, so I guess maybe I just have a different mindset or something.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:34 am

The level is actually really easy once you know what triggers what, but the only way you can find out is by trial and error... and I'm not the only one who had trouble with finding it out, see here: http://www.pcpuzzle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=178349

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:46 am

I can't say I had any trouble on Within An Ace, but I definitely know what you mean there.

Assuming that I won't have a horde of people after my head for this comparison, it's kind of like a Kaizo trap (If you know what that is, you'll know what I mean very easily) only not as enraging.

To be honest, I wouldn't say that's a problem with MoFI exclusively. I feel that it's a problem in video games in general when there's a level editor. I don't mean any offense to anyone here, and especially not anyone who worked on MoFI's levels, but the problem is that the line between difficult and unfair is very, very thin. A lot of people can't see it.

That's not to say MoFI's entirely unfair, but it's very easy to cross the line without meaning to.

Just my $0.02.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:19 am

No, not a Kaizo trap. Kaizo traps require you to do something unintuitive at the beginning so that you don't die at the end. This is not the case here. It's more like one big "how was I supposed to know THAT?!" moment. Honestly, who dodged that first ice ball on their first attempt? I think nobody did. The only useful one is on the right, it's there to freeze Ace unavoidably, so why does the level even NEED all the other ice balls?

As for the fireflowers, you know what would make that section infinitely better? A button. Yeah, just replace that center spot with a button. The game teaches you early on that buttons can do all sorts of things, so there's a natural "I wonder what this button does..." moment. You press it and BLAM, fireflowers pop out. Then you can unfreeze Ace and finish the level.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:03 am

Isn't a Kaizo trap is when you get killed by a trap right after you think you've won? I thought that was the definition, and while it's not exactly what happens with the ice shooter, I thought it was close enough to fall under the term.

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:28 pm

"Kaizo Trap" is a term derived from an old and very unfair Super Mario World hack called "Kaizo Mario World." Some goal points in ROM hacks can cause the player to lose after supposedly finishing the level, due to Mario automatically walking into a pit and dying after collecting the goal point. The typical Kaizo Trap can be prevented by using a P-Switch or somehow blocking Mario's death-walk path.[/genresavvy]

There are no Kaizo Traps in Wonderland Adventures due to the player becoming invincible after collecting the Gold Star... unless the player gets teleported to a death room or something.

I agree that a lot of parts of "Within an Ace" were pretty cheap. That ice ball was unavoidable at first because you didn't know it was coming, and by the time you noticed it, it was too late to get back behind the corner. There was almost no indication about the Fireflowers either.

Sammy_P · Post by **Sammy_P** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:30 pm

MyNameIsKooky wrote:"Kaizo Trap" is a term derived from an old and very unfair Super Mario World hack called "Kaizo Mario World."

qloof knows that because he beat it

has he beat the sequel?

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:49 pm

I beat both of them.

Kaizo Mario is pretty pathetic compared to the other Kaizo Hacks out there.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:52 pm

I got a few levels into the sequel, but I haven't beaten it yet.

I'm pretty sure I've beaten Kaizo 1 two or three times, because I clearly don't value my sanity.

The reason I used the Kaizo Trap comparison is because at that point in Within An Ace, there's no visual hint that anything's going to happen, then suddenly ice spellballs come out of nowhere. It doesn't fit the definition entirely, but I think it's pretty close.

Emerald141 · Post by **Emerald141** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:33 pm

wonderland5000 · Post by **wonderland5000** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:36 pm

This list:

1 Multiplayer

2 Super modifiable game ( wg would just run game.mod which you can modify the whole game )

3 Able to add custom models

4 Auto converter from Wa1 to Wa2 to Wa3

5 No more MAVs ( displaying specific errors ) and no more lost graphics.

6 Advanced wops ( the whole logic and be programed in a custom object )

7 More cutscenes

8 More levels

9 Level packs

10 3d world ( no just 2d walking 3d moving like in minecraft )

11 more colors ( RGB settings )

StinkerSquad01 · Post by **StinkerSquad01** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:44 pm

For your 10, do you mean like an off grid movement system?

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:49 am

wonderland5000 wrote:This list:

1 Multiplayer Undoable in PoTZ since it would probably spin-off as another game

2 Super modifiable game (wg would just run game.mod which you can modify the whole game) Security concerns, scripting language to use, help document, too much work to do in PoTZ

3 Able to add custom models Please include this in the editor, yes

4 Auto converter from Wa1 to Wa2 to Wa3 The file format, or what?

5 No more MAVs ( displaying specific errors ) and no more lost graphics. Be more specific?

6 Advanced wops (the whole logic and be programed in a custom object) Same for #2.

7 More cutscenes Cutscenes editor would be really useful, and by making one it can help MS do cutscenes as well (from what I know cutscenes are currently hardcoded into the game)

8 More levels ...duh?

9 Level packs The current adventure format is already a pack of levels, unless you mean hubs

10 3d world (no just 2d walking 3d moving like in minecraft) Already explained by MS

11 more colors (RGB settings) Would require quite a bit of programming

Comments in bold.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:17 am

How do you imagine the cutscene editor? I don't even know how would it work.

You could use demo recording, yes, but then you'd need some sort of a "camera movement" editor, too... how would that look?

yot yot5 · Post by **yot yot5** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:12 am

I think "Within An Ace" was quite an easy level. True, I needed a restart every obstacle or two, but every MOFI level has that! The tiles that bring up the fireflowers I also found rather fast, they have a sort of round button-like look about them.

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:29 am

Muzozavr wrote:How do you imagine the cutscene editor? I don't even know how would it work.

You could use demo recording, yes, but then you'd need some sort of a "camera movement" editor, too... how would that look?

I haven't really thought about it... I was only thinking of having people enter the route the camera should go (along with the angle and stuff like that), and that's it. No special effects, etc.

exhypercube · Post by **exhypercube** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:32 pm

Here's a cut scene ideal, how about some art like the ones in Secret Worlds. It can also be used in signs and chats.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:23 pm

yot yot5 wrote:I think "Within An Ace" was quite an easy level. True, I needed a restart every obstacle or two, but every MOFI level has that! The tiles that bring up the fireflowers I also found rather fast, they have a sort of round button-like look about them.

The problem is not the fact that it's difficult, the problem is that it requires trial-and-error to succeed. I think "Pool Room", for example, is a more difficult level than "Within An Ace", but theoretically you could be smart and awesome enough to solve "Pool Room" on the first try. Doing that to "Within An Ace" is literally impossible -- you have to know all the traps in advance.

WSW-like static cutscenes should not be hard to implement... but then everyone is going to whine about not getting the cooler WA-like moving cutscenes.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:14 pm

Actually, only the camera angles and text is hardcoded... the .wlvs can be edited.