Regarding Midnight Synergy - Part 2: The Forum

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:58 am

Patrick, permission to speak again please?
(no personal attacks, no examples with names, at least not negative)

cherrychoi · Post by **cherrychoi** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:58 am

What a pity(Learned from English lesson

) that tyteen get banned for only posting.

I am a kind of lurker(right?) as I didn't get on this forum too much.My brother(tyteen)often call me to get on this forum,but usually I don't.

Salin · Post by **Salin** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:47 am

Sorry Popo, but I didn't mean to say that this was your reason. But if I remember correct, you said that you felt uncomfortable with people with several usernames, or at least that it was disturbing??? That's what I ment about people being hiding anyway.

Again, sorry if it sounded like I put words in your mouth.

popo · Post by **popo** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:57 am

I thought you meant you didn't like it when people were 'lurking'. I don't mind coming out of hiding if the option disappears.

Salin · Post by **Salin** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:47 pm

I don't like lurkers, even when I was a lurker, I lurked as myself! If you know what I mean

cherrychoi · Post by **cherrychoi** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:33 pm

(From MS: Since this is just tyteen posting under another name - which he seems to like to tell people "in secret", both accounts have been suspended, and the suspension period lengthened.)

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:21 pm

Marinus wrote:Patrick, permission to speak again please?
(no personal attacks, no examples with names, at least not negative)

Ok, please keep in on topic though.

puzking · Post by **puzking** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:58 pm

cherrychoi wrote:(From MS: Since this is just tyteen posting under another name - which he seems to like to tell people "in secret", both accounts have been suspended, and the suspension period lengthened.)

The final post from puzking.
This account will get banned soon

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:48 pm

I think as the saying goes, 3 strikes and you're out. I hope you are happy, you are only the second person in five years to get perma-banned from this forum. I know a lot of other people will be happy. I'm not particularly, but you seem to want to defy any instructions for the sake of defying them... so there's no other way of dealing with you.

The only thing that comes out of this that might be positive, is that some others might now have the ability to focus on other suggestions for the forum. I hope we can return this thread to a good debate about various potential features, without getting personal.

Salin · Post by **Salin** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:54 pm

I also hope this means that people will return.

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:38 pm

And one more post from me.

I am starting to form, with the comments sent to me so far, a (I think) good structure with rules for an improved forum. I'm going to sit on them and think for a few days, also because I really must return my attention to WAMOFI... there are some people eagerly awaiting a beta version, and they'll have to wait a little longer than expected already.

In the meantime, please continue sending me your comments (either via post or pm).

Questions brought up:

1. New forum software with potential new features
* improvement to the search engine
* post rankings
* blocking PMs (friend/foe lists)
(I'm lumping these all together, because none of the above can be implemented in the current forum setup, a restart would go hand in hand with these, if implemented... keep that in mind)

2. Removal/Reduction/Split of the Off-Topic areas

3. Moderators

4. Question regarding allowing multiple logins

5. Question regarding removal of post counter/ranks to reduce people just posting to get a higher count (this was brought up via pm)

6. Question about removal of PMs (or another way to no longer allow members to only function in the background of the forum)

7. Any ways to improve the Level Posting areas?

8. Did I miss any? If so, sorry - still bring them up in discussion.

jdl · Post by **jdl** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:59 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote: Questions brought up:

1. New forum software with potential new features
* improvement to the search engine
* post rankings
* blocking PMs (friend/foe lists)
(I'm lumping these all together, because none of the above can be implemented in the current forum setup, a restart would go hand in hand with these, if implemented... keep that in mind)

No Comment

2. Removal/Reduction/Split of the Off-Topic areas

Please keep it! But with stricter rules.

3. Moderators

No Comment

4. Question regarding allowing multiple logins

I don't know about this one.

5. Question regarding removal of post counter/ranks to reduce people just posting to get a higher count (this was brought up via pm)

No Comment

6. Question about removal of PMs (or another way to no longer allow members to only function in the background of the forum)

I like PM's. Please don't remove it. What if you want a friend to try out a level before submitting?

7. Any ways to improve the Level Posting areas?

I think its good the way it is.

mqdar · Post by **mqdar** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:29 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote:1. New forum software with potential new features
* improvement to the search engine
* post rankings
* blocking PMs (friend/foe lists)
(I'm lumping these all together, because none of the above can be implemented in the current forum setup, a restart would go hand in hand with these, if implemented... keep that in mind)

I think that would be good! But, friend/foe lists? Remember when I made that topic which you locked because 'we can do better than that'?

2. Removal/Reduction/Split of the Off-Topic areas

If the Off-Topic areas were completely removed, one half of the forum's purpose would be gone.
Splitting the Off-Topic section is an interesting idea though.

3. Moderators

Hmm... I really don't know.

4. Question regarding allowing multiple logins

I don't remember this being brought up, but I do remember "multiple usernames" being brought up.

5. Question regarding removal of post counter/ranks to reduce people just posting to get a higher count (this was brought up via pm)

I like having ranks.
When people just post to get a higher rank, they are spamming, and spamming is against the rules. The posts would just end up being deleted.

6. Question about removal of PMs (or another way to no longer allow members to only function in the background of the forum)

I wouldn't remove the PM feature. The only problem is that nobody else (even the admin) can read PMs.

7. Any ways to improve the Level Posting areas?

I don't think that there's any problem with it.

(Comments in bold)

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:24 pm

1. New forum software with potential new features
* improvement to the search engine
* post rankings
* blocking PMs (friend/foe lists)
(I'm lumping these all together, because none of the above can be implemented in the current forum setup, a restart would go hand in hand with these, if implemented... keep that in mind)

I think that would be good! But, friend/foe lists? Remember when I made that topic which you locked because 'we can do better than that'?

These wouldn't be public lists. These would actually be things to stop people to don't want PM'ing you from... well PM'ing you.

6. Question about removal of PMs (or another way to no longer allow members to only function in the background of the forum)

I wouldn't remove the PM feature. The only problem is that nobody else (even the admin) can read PMs.

That's why they are called PM's

Dizzy1 · Post by **Dizzy1** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:09 am

Well...here are my opinions.

Questions brought up:

1. New forum software with potential new features
* improvement to the search engine
* post rankings
* blocking PMs (friend/foe lists)
(I'm lumping these all together, because none of the above can be implemented in the current forum setup, a restart would go hand in hand with these, if implemented... keep that in mind)
(1.) I like the new 'search engine' idea, but I would be fine without it. If I don't want to read a PM, I'll delete it.
I don't need rankings either.

2. Removal/Reduction/Split of the Off-Topic areas
(2.) I think a 'split' Off Topic area would be great. So the adults and children can each have their own space.

3. Moderators
(3.) Yes this would help.

4. Question regarding allowing multiple logins
(4.) I don't think we should be able to have them. If someone has a problem logging back in...they should tell 'you' or a 'moderator'.

5. Question regarding removal of post counter/ranks to reduce people just posting to get a higher count (this was brought up via pm)
(5.) The 'posting only to get a higher count' was getting ridiculous and if it can be stopped, then I'm all for it.

6. Question about removal of PMs (or another way to no longer allow members to only function in the background of the forum)
(6.) I don't want to remove PMs altogether. It is very helpful when some of us are making a split level (where 2 or more are working on the same level).

7. Any ways to improve the Level Posting areas?
(7.) I think it's fine.

uneekrose · Post by **uneekrose** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:24 am

I like the search engine because I go back to a lot of the older levels but I've got patience and I have even gone through the postings of the level creators themselves to find a level they posted.

I also like the PMing, it's useful and unwanted PM's are easy to ignore.

I think we should have a FAQ section or a general help topic but it would be nice if people would make better use of the topic area, for example instead of the topic line saying 'help' something like 'graphic help needed' would be better, maybe it would save the same question being asked a doz. different times. When I say FAQ section, for things like maybe a link to Mette's website or how do I delete a level and upload a different one cause I messed that one up.

I bet most don't know that they have a user attachment control panel they can access just by clicking on their names. I found it by accident.

I see no reason for one person to have multiple user names unless it's to be deceiving. I forgot my password yesterday at a site but it's automatic where they ask you a few questions and if you answer them right you can get back in with a new password. If a password is going to be emailed to me it's only a matter of minutes before I receive it.

When I first noticed the rankings I thought it was cool but as time went on I hardly noticed that mine had changed but I still think it's cool. But just posting nonsense to get a higher count isn't.

We do need a moderator. This is the first forum I've been on where there wasn't one. I guess we all need to be reminded of our manners. I never even really read the rules and guidelines till several months ago and I'm sure I'm not the only one. When I first joined I just skimmed through them. Having a moderator would also help catch and remove some of the real spam a lot quicker. I've seen some on here that seemed pretty racey and should have been deleted right away.

The only way I can see to improve the level posting is to remove the levels that are not playable and also the postings where people have removed their own levels.

I don't understand the need to have 10 posts, I never had to do it when I joined. Now with all the new members having to do that I quit checking the meet and greet topic. That topic really needs to be cleaned up. Looks like spam alley. lol I see no reason to even have it, maybe by not having it new members would be more willing to introduce themselves in another topic area and maybe get to know someone and feel more comfortable by joining in a bit more.

I hope we get a warning when you get ready for the whatever changes may come and you shut the forum down. It was scary the time before last when you did that.

Blast!10 · Post by **Blast!10** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:27 am

I think, that if a user has posted 10 posts to give himself full RM permissions, delete those first 10 posts when that user has 20 or more posts, so the postcount will only go down to 10 and not to 0.

jcvalcar2 · Post by **jcvalcar2** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:06 pm

First and foremost, MS you have created an awesome game and a wonderful place to meet and talk with people from all over the world. I would hate to see the forum go public, personally I think that would create more problems than what already exist.

I like the off-topic section, this has been a fun area to get to know others and to share different things. By eliminating this area, I feel that would just encourage people to start threads in the game level areas, so I hope you keep this area seperate for the purpose it was intended.

As for making new rules, you already have rules in place, they just need to be enforced. Can't you send the rules to new users, giving them the option to agree or not (and if they don't agree then they don't get on). Leaving them as a thread to be opened/read or not doesn't necessarily mean that they are read. I realize that this wouldn't help with existing members but maybe send the troublemakers these rules in an email, same options, letting that be their warning.

I don't see a need for multiple user names, maybe by eliminating this option things can be controlled better.

I also don't see a need for a silly section, this just adds unnecessary space to the server. We've had this before and it didn't seem to have worked as intended.

And I would like to see the search engine improved. It is very difficult finding things with the options that are set up because the search seems to ignore these options.

On the surface I don't care for the rating system, maybe because I don't completely understand it, but I feel that things are fine the way they are.

jdl · Post by **jdl** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:25 pm

I think, (in the newer forums) you can set it so that certain users, groups, or forums need post aproval so that the admin or mods can read over it and edit it before submission. You can even deny them altogether. I think my forum has that option...

wonderfull · Post by **wonderfull** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:37 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote: 1. New forum software with potential new features
* improvement to the search engine
* post rankings
* blocking PMs (friend/foe lists)
A new search engine would be great. I have mixed feelings about the rebooting of the system though if it means losing everything that's on there. But I guess if people need help with old levels, they just have to ask, right?

2. Removal/Reduction/Split of the Off-Topic areas
I think splitting it would help, as long as it is used as such. You probably wouldn't need a "silly section" too, as this would probably end up being just that. I have no problem with younger members posting on topics, if they can be sensible, but if they have their own area where they can banter in "youth-talk" then everyone should be relatively happy.

3. Moderators
Probably a necessity to keep things cleaned up regularly. I would want it to be someone trustworthy though if they are going to have access to all of our information (email addresses etc.)

4. Question regarding allowing multiple logins
No need for them. If someone has problems logging on to their account, they can contact admin and straighten it out.

5. Question regarding removal of post counter/ranks
Mixed feelings here too...it does give an indication of the more active members in a sense, however many of the current credits are really for posts nothing to do with the game.

6. Question about removal of PMs
Pm's are good when used properly. If someone is abusing the feature, then they should be reported to admin and be dealt with.

7. Any ways to improve the Level Posting areas?
I think it works well. I like the idea of levelmakers putting their name and level # in the text tho to help with the searching (some do it now)

Lutz · Post by **Lutz** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:39 pm

1. New forum software with potential new features
* improvement to the search engine
* post rankings
* blocking PMs (friend/foe lists)
A better search engine would be fine. I made the experience that I either got too much results or no results at all. But I'm not using it very often.

2. Removal/Reduction/Split of the Off-Topic areas
I don't mind.

3. Moderators
Could be helpful for you. But I guess it depends on the rules you want to install in the future. And there should be certain rules for the moderators, what they are allowed to do and what not.

4. Question regarding allowing multiple logins
I don't see any use for multiple logins. On the other hand I don't see how you will control it. The only thing needed at registration is a valid e-mail. And there are a lot of free mail providers out there.

5. Question regarding removal of post counter/ranks to reduce people just posting to get a higher count (this was brought up via pm)
It's just a nice gimmick but not really necessary. And there's not much change if you reached a certain amount of posts. So: away with the ranks but I would leave the post count.

6. Question about removal of PMs (or another way to no longer allow members to only function in the background of the forum)
I don't use PMs very often but I certainly would miss it if it's gone.

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:46 pm

Most things other people said are allright to me, but please don't start again from scratch. You can delete written text, but you can't delete feelings. I think I'll be back tomorrow or in a few days. Please take your time.

Blast!10 · Post by **Blast!10** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:31 am

I also think the PM feature shouldn't be removed. If there is a user or users that you don't want them to send PMs, just disable it in the admin panel. I'm 99% certain it's possible in phpBB2. Why remove the whole thing just because of a user or two?

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:57 pm

Meh. I agree with most others, EXCEPT for removing the Off-Topic section.

Why? Because... You know when you get a bunch of people together on a forum, and they all like the same thing (Main topic of forum)? We all know it'll happen eventually, they'll want to talk about something else.

I've seen more forums that were originally about one principal topic (NOT JUST GAME FORUMS) that always have at least one Off-Topic section. Also, the Off-Topic section has the second most amount of posts in the forum, at a grand total of 27,615. Removing it could delete some well thought-out posts and put some users back at 0 posts.

Quite frankly, if that happened to me on this account, I would be pretty annoyed. I'm sure that other ppl would be annoyed too.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:01 pm

Qloof234 wrote:the Off-Topic section has the second most amount of posts in the forum, at a grand total of 27,615. Removing it could delete some well thought-out posts and put some users back at 0 posts.

And, what we are trying to do, is prevent users or having practically nothing to do wih the oher forums like that (I think...

)

lizwiz · Post by **lizwiz** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:54 pm

I don't post very often, and when I do it's mostly on the Levels forum. Having said that I have at some point visited most of them. I don't have much time to spare for games, but I tend to stick with the ones I like, and Wonderland, and all its offshoots is one of the all-time best. So I'm going to have a bash at making a few suggestions.

1. New forum software with potential new features
* improvement to the search engine
* post rankings
* blocking PMs (friend/foe lists)
(I'm lumping these all together, because none of the above can be implemented in the current forum setup, a restart would go hand in hand with these, if implemented... keep that in mind)

I use the search engine a lot so improvemnet of that would please me mightily. Post rankings is a bit more tricky. I don't think the number of posts you have made in any way denotes the caliber of the person, and I think rankings should be from personal recommendations of the community and/or moderator.

Points could be given (probably by moderators) for kindness, helpfulness, general pleasantness, and exceptionally good levelmaking.
Equally points can be taken for rudeness, flaming, and all other nastiness.
Points can be kept hidden if the person concerned wants them to be. Every time someone reaches a platform of say 50 points they go up a level. This is much fairer than the number of posts because meaningless posts are often inserted to boost someone to the next level.

blocking PMs is useful but not in my opinion necessary.

2. Removal/Reduction/Split of the Off-Topic areas

This section can be quite fun if it is properly run, but it can easily get out of hand, as has been seen recently. Stricter rules and regular moderation should solve the problem without having to remove the whole area.

3. Moderators

I think Moderators are vitally important. You Patrick are working your socks off in order to give us a new game which we are all eagerly anticipating. If you have to spend time sorting out the forums then it is going to take away from the time you can spend on the game. So my sugestion is chose people who you can trust

I'm sure there must be some. Give them rules and regulations to whatever extent you wish to and then all you have to do is watch the watchers

4. Question regarding allowing multiple logins

I think this has been misunderstood by some of the people reading it. It's not a matter of people who have lost their email and have to make themselves a new login - it's about the people who have four, five, six or whatever logins in order to be what they call "clever" and disrupt things. I think this is something that should be stopped, and the best way to do that is to ensure that an email is only used once, and that all accounts are verrified before anyone can post.

5. Question regarding removal of post counter/ranks to reduce people just posting to get a higher count (this was brought up via pm)

See above

6. Question about removal of PMs (or another way to no longer allow members to only function in the background of the forum)

It seems a shame to remove PMs - I would be surprised if many people only functioned in the background - what would be the point?

7. Any ways to improve the Level Posting areas?

I think they are great - if you can improve on great it will be greater if not greatest

8. Did I miss any? If so, sorry - still bring them up in discussion.

I can't think of anything else except please don't get rid of the Levels forum - an archive where you can pick up levels by month would be good but only if you don't remove the original posts - I have spent many happy hours going back over past levels when I can't work them out, and seeing if I can find the answer there (hence my extensive use of the search engine). If you had a new forum called "old Levels" with them bundled together by month it would be brilliant.

Finally I have to say that all forums will fluctuate in response to the curent situation. As you said Patrick there hasn't been a new game for a while so it is only to be expected that the numbers have tailed off recently. They will pick up again when the new game is released. It is a tribute to the game - and it's author - that there are still so many online.

uneekrose · Post by **uneekrose** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:52 pm

If you had a new forum called "old Levels" with them bundled together by month it would be brilliant.

Now that would be a good idea except maybe do it by author and year.

Small · Post by **Small** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:43 am

1. New forum software with potential new features
* improvement to the search engine
* post rankings
* blocking PMs (friend/foe lists)
(I'm lumping these all together, because none of the above can be implemented in the current forum setup, a restart would go hand in hand with these, if implemented... keep that in mind)

Now, I know you're probably thinking InvisionFree, but honestly, I would recommend Proboards. Admittedly, this would not allow under 13's to post, but it has greater aesthetic and customization possibilities. With proboards you could create a Wonderland database (textures, models, levels, solutions, etc.) It has a fine search engine, you can give and receive "Karma" and you can ban people. I'm not preaching here, it's great.

2. Removal/Reduction/Split of the Off-Topic areas

Keep the off topic areas open, but implement more rules, etc.

3. Moderators

Yes, but only experienced and active members.

4. Question regarding allowing multiple logins

No. Period.

5. Question regarding removal of post counter/ranks to reduce people just posting to get a higher count (this was brought up via pm)

No. It's really pointless anyway - you can't really boast to people that you're a Wonderland Master or whatever. Keep them.

6. Question about removal of PMs (or another way to no longer allow members to only function in the background of the forum)

Of course not. It's an efficient way people can ask for solutions to levels, chat, etc.

7. Any ways to improve the Level Posting areas?

Join Proboards and get a database.

8. Did I miss any? If so, sorry - still bring them up in discussion.

Don't think so.

Blast!10 · Post by **Blast!10** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:31 pm

I wrote:Or maybe, remove the offtopic chat forum and instead create a bunch of new forums:

Creativity (show off your art, games, web site etc)

Forum Games (post threads like A-Z story, 3 word story, 4 syllable story etc)

Forum Discussion (discuss about the forum itself)

More Stuff (post games, art etc. NOT made by you [things that you make go in creativity])

Community Projects (chain levels, chain games, chain everything else )

Add more if you want...

What I meant was to move topics from the offtopic chat forum to the matching forums, and then remove the offtopic forum (with the really old and irrelevant topics and the posts that didn't fit into any of the other categories.

For example, topics about other games (not made my MS and not made by members of this forum, e.g. Toontown topics) would go in More Stuff.
Story continuing topics would go in Forum Games.
This topic would go in Forum Discussion.

pie_or_cake · Post by **pie_or_cake** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:31 am

Midnight Synergy wrote:I'm not particularly, but you seem to want to defy any instructions for the sake of defying them... so there's no other way of dealing with you.

Happy?
Well I don't know what happened but I really think he got some" back hitting".

Back on topic:
We can do something like this:
Wonderland Discussion
-General Wonderland Discussion
-Level Solutions
-Classic Levels
-WA levels
-Custom levels/adventures
Custom Stuff(Related to Wonderland)
-RTW levels
-Puzzle/Action level
-Kids Level
-Other levels
-RTW Custom Content
-WA Adventures
-WA Custom Content
Off-Topic
-Everybody Let's Off-Topic
-Kids N' Teens Korner(from tyteen4a03)
-Off Topic
-Homework Corner
-Adults Corner
-Off-Topic
-Forum Activites
-The Midnight Post
-Secret Forum