Question for MS...

[Qloof234]

Wasn't really sure where to put this, and I was curious as to how other people felt about this, so... yeah.

Out of curiosity, is there anything that can be done about the 800KB sizelimit for files? As a user of the WA Editor, the limit gets to be a bit problematic. My most recent adventure (as in, posted five minutes ago) was over 820KB before I tried uploading it, so I had to go back and remove some unnecessary stuff. While for that level it wasn't too problematic, for larger adventures it could become impossible to get it under 800KB.

I know, I know, WA3's more important, I'm not trying to say otherwise. However, I'm just curious as to if the size limit can be increased or not.

(As you can probably infer, I am very curious about just about everything by nature)

[MyNameIsKooky]

You could just put your adventure into a zipped folder.

[Qloof234]

... I was trying to think of justification for changing the limit, but I got nothing. Shows how little ground I have here considering how much I love nitpicking.

Having said that, the filesize limit actually does kinda bug me. It's not just adventures either, actually - I was trying to upload a .PNG file in another post, but it was too large so I had to change it to .JPG (if you know much about my computer usage, you'll know that I hate .JPG's and I am a master of .PNGs).

In the long-term it isn't a problem at all, and I'll admit it bugs me more than it should, but having said that, it does bug me.

[VirtLands]

As an alternative, even if the zip file itself is > 800k,

you may try some free file splitter, and upload the 'pieces' separately.
(therefore, no need to re-design levels or change PNGs to JPGs.)

① Free File Splitter
http://www.filesplitter.org/

② GSplit 3
http://www.gdgsoft.com/gsplit/

{ Gsplit has an option where the pieces can be self-uniting. }

③ HJSplit
http://www.hjsplit.org/
{ HJSplit will splits files into pieces
ending in .001, .002, .003, ... }

④ DEEPCOM Free file splitter
http://www.deepcom.com/

⑤ WinMend File Splitter { very nice options }
http://www.winmend.com/file-splitter/

⑥ Philipps' File Splitter
http://weltweitimnetz.de/splitter_en.htm

⑦ Free File Splitter 5.0.1189
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Fil ... tter.shtml

⑧ File Splitter and Joiner 3.3
http://www.softpedia.com/get/File-manag ... iner.shtml

⑨ Folder Axe 7
http://www.freewarefiles.com/Folder-Axe ... 68550.html

⑩ --a list of other splitters --
http://www.freewarefiles.com/category_9_97.html

Paquet Builder is a free (freeware-version) program (and really complex)
that works together with Gsplits to make self-uniting archives.

http://www.gdgsoft.com/pb/

[MyNameIsKooky]

The biggest adventure that I've ever made (53 wlv and 55 dia files) was only 166 KB when zipped. If you have a really sizey image, then resize it so that it's small enough. The upload limit isn't a problem.

[Emerald141]

‎

[MyNameIsKooky]

GRAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!111

YOU DON'T NEED TO REMOVE ANYTHING. JUST RIGHT CLICK YOUR ADVENTURE, SELECT "SEND TO," THEN SELECT "COMPRESSED (ZIPPED) FOLDER".

IS IT REALLY THAT HARD?!?!/1/1/12klrjsoadasodf :EVIL::EVIL:EVIL:

Seriously though, increasing the upload limit would be a waste of bandwidth, especially if it's just for everyone's extreme laziness.

[Sammy_P]

GRAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!111

YOU DON'T NEED TO REMOVE ANYTHING. JUST RIGHT CLICK YOUR ADVENTURE, SELECT "SEND TO," THEN SELECT "COMPRESSED (ZIPPED) FOLDER".

IS IT REALLY THAT HARD?!?!/1/1/12klrjsoadasodf :EVIL::EVIL:EVIL:

Seriously though, increasing the upload limit would be a waste of bandwidth, especially if it's just for everyone's extreme laziness.

OK. *hides in bomb shelter*

And I agree.

[Qloof234]

GRAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!111

YOU DON'T NEED TO REMOVE ANYTHING. JUST RIGHT CLICK YOUR ADVENTURE, SELECT "SEND TO," THEN SELECT "COMPRESSED (ZIPPED) FOLDER".

IS IT REALLY THAT HARD?!?!/1/1/12klrjsoadasodf :EVIL::EVIL:EVIL:

Seriously though, increasing the upload limit would be a waste of bandwidth, especially if it's just for everyone's extreme laziness.

If it's that touchy an issue, then I demand a filesize increase

In all seriousness though, 800 KB is tiny by today's standards. If making it just a megabyte or two is going to be that much of a strain on bandwith, then there's a problem.

Zipping adventures isn't hard, but it still shouldn't be necessary. Not being able to upload .PNG's is a pretty unnecessary requirement too.

[MyNameIsKooky]

Zipping adventures isn't hard, but it still shouldn't be necessary.

Necessary or not, it doesn't take any more than five seconds to zip an adventure. Why is it such a problem if you have to zip your adventure?

Not being able to upload .PNG's is a pretty unnecessary requirement too.

Does having such high quality images really matter? I can barely tell the difference between PNGs and JPGs unless I compare them.

[Qloof234]

Zipping adventures isn't hard, but it still shouldn't be necessary.

Necessary or not, it doesn't take any more than five seconds to zip an adventure. Why is it such a problem if you have to zip your adventure?

Because it's already compressed into a .wa2 file. What's the point of compressing it in the first place if it's still too big to be uploaded? I'm not saying "ugh zipping it up is too much effort", but I don't see any reason why we should need to in the first place since it's already supposed to be compressed.

Not being able to upload .PNG's is a pretty unnecessary requirement too.

Does having such high quality images really matter? I can barely tell the difference between PNGs and JPGs unless I compare them.

I'm OCD, so I usually notice stuff like that easily. Whether it sounds silly or not to you or anyone else, I'm more comfortable working with .PNG's anyways.

[MyNameIsKooky]

Zipping adventures isn't hard, but it still shouldn't be necessary.

Necessary or not, it doesn't take any more than five seconds to zip an adventure. Why is it such a problem if you have to zip your adventure?

Because it's already compressed into a .wa2 file. What's the point of compressing it in the first place if it's still too big to be uploaded? I'm not saying "ugh zipping it up is too much effort", but I don't see any reason why we should need to in the first place since it's already supposed to be compressed.

.wa2 files aren't compressed at all. They're just all of the adventure's .wlv, .dia, and master.dat files combined into a single file so that users can easily install the adventure to their player once it is published.

Not being able to upload .PNG's is a pretty unnecessary requirement too.

Does having such high quality images really matter? I can barely tell the difference between PNGs and JPGs unless I compare them.

I'm OCD, so I usually notice stuff like that easily. Whether it sounds silly or not to you or anyone else, I'm more comfortable working with .PNG's anyways.

Heeeey, I'm OCD too, but whatever.

[Qloof234]

WA2 files aren't compressed? I was under the impression that they were. My bad

NINJAEDIT: Grammar.

[tyteen4a03]

But still, it would be easier to just download a .wa2 file rather than unzipping it, then use the .wa2 file inside. The point here is not about zipping them as a workaround, it's about being direct. Why make everybody zip things up when you can just ask MS to raise the limit?

[MyNameIsKooky]

Oh man, zipping and unzipping files is such a hassle!

[Qloof234]

... So what if it is? I actually know some people in real life who feel that way, and no, they're not that lazy. It's just an extra step, and an unnecessary one at that.

I appreciate your sarcasm, by the way. Thanks for stealing my shtick

Let me put things in perspective. The upload limit is less than a megabyte at 800KB (1MB = 1024KB) Wonderland Adventures was released in 2006/2007 (correct me if I'm wrong). As an example, another game I'll use is Half-Life 2. The beta version of Half-Life 2 was leaked in 2003, and almost all of the test maps in it are over a megabyte and a half. Hell, Half-Life 1 was released in 1998 and some of its levels are bigger than that.

Said test maps are ones without lighting data, and they're just standalone maps.

In other words, a 1998/2003 map is almost twice as big as a pack of levels/dialog from 2007. I know it might sound like I'm disproving my own point here, but let me put it this way. Two megabytes would basically be the standard for a standalone map from back then, and they were shared at that time too. If 1998 could manage that, then what circumstances forbid 2012 from having an upload limit that high?

It doesn't even have to be two megabytes, it could just be one. Yes, zipping files bypasses that, but some people just don't have patience for that. I don't consider myself one of them as I'll still download adventures if they are in a zip, but I prefer not to myself because it's just an extra step - one that, honestly, shouldn't be necessary in the first place.

[MyNameIsKooky]

I actually know some people in real life who feel that way, and no, they're not that lazy.

Uh, what? Reluctance to click two times contradicts un-laziness.

It's just an extra step, and an unnecessary one at that.

Do you have an awful zipping program or something? I wouldn't even consider zipping/unzipping a file as an extra step.

half-life

MS isn't Valve. Not to mention that the last Wonderland release was what, four years ago?

Yes, zipping files bypasses that, but some people just don't have patience for that. I don't consider myself one of them as I'll still download adventures if they are in a zip, but I prefer not to myself because it's just an extra step - one that, honestly, shouldn't be necessary in the first place.

All you have to do is right click a file, hover over "Send to", then click "Compressed (zipped) folder". I don't understand why you wouldn't have the patience to do such a simple task.

There's no reason to have a bigger upload limit. If you want a higher-quality image, then use an image hosting site. If your adventure is too big, zip it. If you're too lazy to zip a file, that's your own problem. A bigger upload limit would be a minor convenience at best.

[Emerald141]

‎

[Qloof234]

I actually know some people in real life who feel that way, and no, they're not that lazy.

Uh, what? Reluctance to click two times contradicts un-laziness.

How so? Because they don't want to if they don't have to?

I don't view that as being lazy. For someone like me? Yes, it would be, but the people I'm talking about (who happen to be my friends, actually) are far busier than I am. They don't have endless bouts of time to use the computer like I do. Using... whatever the Windows XP default zip program was actually takes time, I can say that from experience. I use WinRAR now, so I don't have that problem.

It's just an extra step, and an unnecessary one at that.

Do you have an awful zipping program or something? I wouldn't even consider zipping/unzipping a file as an extra step.

Like above, the default Windows XP zip program (WinZip, I believe?) isn't the fastest. It takes several seconds, which it shouldn't have to for .zip files below a megabyte.

half-life

MS isn't Valve. Not to mention that the last Wonderland release was what, four years ago?

How is that relevant? I'm saying that a map format from 1998 results in bigger files than one from 2007/2008.

The reason I make this comparison is that Valve's more mainstream than Midnight Synergy is (no offense to MS himself, of course), which means that the "average" for map/whatever sizes is going to be around theirs. Not sure exactly how to word it, but whatever.

Yes, zipping files bypasses that, but some people just don't have patience for that. I don't consider myself one of them as I'll still download adventures if they are in a zip, but I prefer not to myself because it's just an extra step - one that, honestly, shouldn't be necessary in the first place.

All you have to do is right click a file, hover over "Send to", then click "Compressed (zipped) folder". I don't understand why you wouldn't have the patience to do such a simple task.

It's not double-clicking that's the problem. WinZip takes its time, and once again, 800KB is far below the average of today's filesizes, so something like this shouldn't be necessary in the first place.

There's no reason to have a bigger upload limit. If you want a higher-quality image, then use an image hosting site. If your adventure is too big, zip it. If you're too lazy to zip a file, that's your own problem. A bigger upload limit would be a minor convenience at best.

There's no reason not to have a higher upload limit. In fact, if anything, there's a reason to avoid having a lower one to begin with - The current upload limit is dreadfully low by today's standards. If zipping an adventure up/removing stuff from it/using mediafire to upload it is necessary for small adventures (for instance the one I released recently, it's about five minutes long but I had to cut stuff out anyways), there's a problem.

Higher-quality image? Image hosting sites, fair enough.
Adventure too big? For someone like me, that's actually a huge problem. I focus on scenery in my adventures, which causes the .wa2 file to increase in size. The end results look great (if I do say so myself), but considering that I strayed over the upload limit without even making a long level, there's a problem. The reason I chose not to zip it up is that I shouldn't have had to in the first place. With something like that Level 27 adventure thing I made, I can understand on that, because it had, like, 12 rooms that were all the same. For the other level? It had 8 rooms, and some of them were sparsely decorated, yet it still went over the limit.
Too lazy to zip a file? Yes, that is someone's personal problem. I'm not too lazy to, but if I think something's pointless or unnecessary in the first place, unless it's something I want to do, I won't bother.

We obviously disagree on this matter, and I don't know about you, but it is one I feel strongly about. I can't give a reason why, mainly because I don't actually know why.

[MyNameIsKooky]

I actually know some people in real life who feel that way, and no, they're not that lazy.

Uh, what? Reluctance to click two times contradicts un-laziness.

How so?

You're saying that those people aren't lazy, and yet they can't bother to take a few seconds to zip a file.

I don't view that as being lazy. For someone like me? Yes, it would be, but the people I'm talking about (who happen to be my friends, actually) are far busier than I am. They don't have endless bouts of time to use the computer like I do. Using... whatever the Windows XP default zip program was actually takes time, I can say that from experience. I use WinRAR now, so I don't have that problem.
...
The default Windows XP zip program (WinZip, I believe?) isn't the fastest. It takes several seconds, which it shouldn't have to for .zip files below a megabyte.
...
It's not double-clicking that's the problem. WinZip takes its time, and once again, 800KB is far below the average of today's filesizes

It doesn't take endless bouts of computer time to zip a file. WinZip only takes a few extra seconds, according to what you said. If you have a problem with WinZip, then go download a better zipping program.

There's no reason not to have a higher upload limit. In fact, if anything, there's a reason to avoid having a lower one to begin with - The current upload limit is dreadfully low by today's standards. If zipping an adventure up/removing stuff from it/using mediafire to upload it is necessary for small adventures (for instance the one I released recently, it's about five minutes long but I had to cut stuff out anyways), there's a problem.

So you'd rather take the time to go back and remove stuff from your adventure than simply taking a few seconds to zip it? I don't see where you're coming from with this.

With something like that Level 27 adventure thing I made, I can understand on that, because it had, like, 12 rooms that were all the same. For the other level? It had 8 rooms, and some of them were sparsely decorated, yet it still went over the limit.

So put the adventure in a zip file.

The reason I chose not to zip it up is that I shouldn't have had to in the first place.
...
Too lazy to zip a file? Yes, that is someone's personal problem. I'm not too lazy to, but if I think something's pointless or unnecessary in the first place, unless it's something I want to do, I won't bother.

It's not pointless or unnecessary. Zip files are useful if you want to upload big files. In this case, they're necessary for making your adventure compressed enough to upload. Plus, they take less than a minute to create at most. If you have problems with the upload limit, then just use a zip file. Problem solved.

We obviously disagree on this matter, and I don't know about you, but it is one I feel strongly about.

I don't think it really matters either way, but having zip files saves space. Even if the limit is increased, it will still be too small to avoid using zip files for some of the bigger adventures out there.

[Qloof234]

I actually know some people in real life who feel that way, and no, they're not that lazy.

Uh, what? Reluctance to click two times contradicts un-laziness.

How so?

You're saying that those people aren't lazy, and yet they can't bother to take a few seconds to zip a file.

It's not that they can't bother, it's that they don't have time (EDITNOTE: Not sure how to reword this to actually make sense). I know it sounds ridiculous, but I'm not lying - They have school, homework, after-school stuff, and their parents don't allow them much time on the computer anyways. I don't mean that as in they have about half a minute of computer time, but they don't have more than two hours a day at most, if I recall.

It's not a matter of time for them, but of necessity. If there isn't a proper need to, then they won't bother.

... Actually, Hell, they don't even play any of the Wonderland games anyways. I don't know how that part of the conversation ended up where it is now.

I don't view that as being lazy. For someone like me? Yes, it would be, but the people I'm talking about (who happen to be my friends, actually) are far busier than I am. They don't have endless bouts of time to use the computer like I do. Using... whatever the Windows XP default zip program was actually takes time, I can say that from experience. I use WinRAR now, so I don't have that problem.
...
The default Windows XP zip program (WinZip, I believe?) isn't the fastest. It takes several seconds, which it shouldn't have to for .zip files below a megabyte.
...
It's not double-clicking that's the problem. WinZip takes its time, and once again, 800KB is far below the average of today's filesizes

It doesn't take endless bouts of computer time to zip a file. WinZip only takes a few extra seconds, according to what you said. If you have a problem with WinZip, then go download a better zipping program.

I'm not saying WinZip takes ages to zip a file up. It takes a few seconds longer than it should, though. The "endless bouts" thing was referring to my computer time.

There's no reason not to have a higher upload limit. In fact, if anything, there's a reason to avoid having a lower one to begin with - The current upload limit is dreadfully low by today's standards. If zipping an adventure up/removing stuff from it/using mediafire to upload it is necessary for small adventures (for instance the one I released recently, it's about five minutes long but I had to cut stuff out anyways), there's a problem.

So you'd rather take the time to go back and remove stuff from your adventure than simply taking a few seconds to zip it? I don't see where you're coming from with this.

At the time, it didn't cross my mind to zip it up, so I went back and removed stuff. It wasn't a matter of preference at the time.

With something like that Level 27 adventure thing I made, I can understand on that, because it had, like, 12 rooms that were all the same. For the other level? It had 8 rooms, and some of them were sparsely decorated, yet it still went over the limit.

So put the adventure in a zip file.

The reason I chose not to zip it up is that I shouldn't have had to in the first place.
...
Too lazy to zip a file? Yes, that is someone's personal problem. I'm not too lazy to, but if I think something's pointless or unnecessary in the first place, unless it's something I want to do, I won't bother.

It's not pointless or unnecessary. Zip files are useful if you want to upload big files. In this case, they're necessary for making your adventure compressed enough to upload. Plus, they take less than a minute to create at most. If you have problems with the upload limit, then just use a zip file. Problem solved.

Except it is unnecessary. I shouldn't have used the word pointless there, that doesn't reflect how I feel about zip files.

Let me put it this way - If something registers to me as unnecessary (or pointless), then it doesn't have any meaning to me.

Bizarre example - Tell me to draw the net of a cube? I know what it is, but don't see a point as there's nothing tangible.

Ask me what happens to a die if you open it up? I can answer beautifully.

... Not the best example, but it's one I got out of a book, and that is pretty much how I think, so... yeah.

We obviously disagree on this matter, and I don't know about you, but it is one I feel strongly about.

I don't think it really matters either way, but having zip files saves space. Even if the limit is increased, it will still be too small to avoid using zip files for some of the bigger adventures out there.

For bigger adventures, yeah, that's going to be an issue. The main reason I have a problem with this is, like I said, the adventure I made was pretty short, and it still went over the limit. As far as I'm concerned, that's a problem.

Anyways, since we seem to be going round and round in circles here, can we drop the argument?

NINJAEDIT: Wow, I just realized how little sense my first paragraph makes.

[boywhoflies]

Can I throw my point of view in here? While zipping your files is easy, it would be easier to not have to.

[MyNameIsKooky]

Can I throw my point of view in here? While zipping your files is easy, it would be easier to not have to.

Barely. Zipping a file only takes a few extra seconds.

I'm not saying WinZip takes ages to zip a file up. It takes a few seconds longer than it should, though.

A few seconds!!

Except it is unnecessary.

Zipping is necessary. If a file goes above the upload limit, it is necessary to zip it.

Let me put it this way - If something registers to me as unnecessary (or pointless), then it doesn't have any meaning to me.

So the reason you're refusing to use zip files is because they're "unnecessary?"

Bizarre example - Tell me to draw the net of a cube? I know what it is, but don't see a point as there's nothing tangible.

Ask me what happens to a die if you open it up? I can answer beautifully.

I don't think I understand this. Drawing a net is just as intangible as describing it (unless you're in school or something).

... Not the best example, but it's one I got out of a book, and that is pretty much how I think, so... yeah.

I don't think it's necessary to raise the upload limit just to account for your way of thinking.

For bigger adventures, yeah, that's going to be an issue. The main reason I have a problem with this is, like I said, the adventure I made was pretty short, and it still went over the limit. As far as I'm concerned, that's a problem.

ZIP. FILES. SDIFGJDAPLFGAPSDLFJAPSDFL-

Anyways, since we seem to be going round and round in circles here, can we drop the argument?

Well, if you more clearly explained what you have against using zip files, then we'd be getting somewhere.

[Nobody]

HELLO EVERYONE

HOW ARE YOU

[Technos72]

IM OKAY THANKS

[Muzozavr]

Question is: has anyone ever made an adventure that you can zip or rar and STILL be over the upload limit?

[MyNameIsKooky]

No. The biggest adventure I know of on here, Mr. Zurkon's Retarded Holiday II (53 .wlv's and 55 .dia's) was only 166 KB when zipped, a mere fifth of the upload limit.

[Qloof234]

Except it is unnecessary.

Zipping is necessary. If a file goes above the upload limit, it is necessary to zip it.

The only reason it's "necessary" in the first place is because of the bloody upload limit being lower than it should be.

Let me put it this way - If something registers to me as unnecessary (or pointless), then it doesn't have any meaning to me.

So the reason you're refusing to use zip files is because they're "unnecessary?"

Because it shouldn't be necessary in the first place. If games from as much as fourteen years ago had larger standalone maps that could be distributed without any trouble, there's no reason for the limit here to be less than a megabyte.

... Not the best example, but it's one I got out of a book, and that is pretty much how I think, so... yeah.

I don't think it's necessary to raise the upload limit just to account for your way of thinking.

I'm using that as an example as to why I don't use .zip files. I'm not asking for a file increase because I look at things differently.

Anyways, since we seem to be going round and round in circles here, can we drop the argument?

Well, if you more clearly explained what you have against using zip files, then we'd be getting somewhere.

I don't have anything against zip files exclusively. The problem I have is that the limit shouldn't be this low to begin with.

Since we clearly don't see eye to eye on this, I seriously suggest we just drop this issue entirely. We're not getting anywhere in convincing each other of our thoughts.

EDIT: Calmed down, cut out stuff I felt needed to be cut out.

[MyNameIsKooky]

The only reason it's "necessary" in the first place is because of the bloody upload limit being lower than it should be.

Which brings us back to how easy zip files are to produce.

it shouldn't be necessary in the first place. If games from as much as fourteen years ago had larger standalone maps that could be distributed without any trouble, there's no reason for the limit here to be less than a megabyte.
...
The problem I have is that the limit shouldn't be this low to begin with.

It doesn't matter because the limit isn't causing any problems, thanks to trusty zip files.

I'm using that as an example as to why I don't use .zip files. I'm not asking for a file increase because I look at things differently.

From what I can tell, the reason you even asked for a limit increase in the first place is because you don't use zip files, due to your way at looking at things.

Since we clearly don't see eye to eye on this, I seriously suggest we just drop this issue entirely. We're not getting anywhere in convincing each other of our thoughts.

OK. I was just trying to solve the whole thing by convincing you to use zip files (I still don't understand at all why you don't like using them). But whatever, your loss. Regardless, you'd probably be hard-pressed to get MS to do anything these days, considering POTZ seems to still be in Development Hell and all.

[tyteen4a03]

Zipping:
1. Zip files up
2. Upload it
3. User downloads
4. User have to make sure the zip file was unzipped correctly (this takes at most 1 minute, even for technically challenged people)
5. User lets WA Editor do the job

Raising limit:
1. Upload
2. Download
3. Let WA Editor do the job

Profit in 3 easy steps. It might be just 2 extra steps for 1 adventure, but consider the amount of adventures we have, it can go up to 200 or even more extra steps. And they aren't even necessary if MS just does ONE step, to raise the upload limit.

Unless you are required to upload texture files and icons as well, I would just raise the limit.

And this doesn't even happen very often.