Dialogue error message

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Fri May 01, 2009 2:13 pm

Maybe it's something in the dialogue.

Emerald141 · Post by **Emerald141** » Fri May 01, 2009 3:28 pm

AJQZC · Post by **AJQZC** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:21 pm

Perhaps you used a file or dialogue that's from MoFi or WA that hasn't been converted.

cbloopy · Post by **cbloopy** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:31 pm

AJQZC wrote:Perhaps you used a file or dialogue that's from MoFi or WA that hasn't been converted.

Doubtful, it sounded like Emerald141 started off from scratch.

Since you deleted the file, I don't have any clue what happened, but then again the Editor isn't exactly crash-proof.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:34 pm

You can't convert dialogues, and will never need to. (yet)

Besides, in levels, they don't crash UNLESS they have been converted.

mqdar · Post by **mqdar** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:43 pm

Nobody wrote:You can't convert dialogues, and will never need to. (yet)

Besides, in levels, they don't crash UNLESS they have been converted.

1. Of course you can convert dialog files

2. If a dialog crashes because it hasn't been converted, the editor MAVs.

"Array Index out of Bounds"... weird. I got that error once when I clicked somewhere in the editor. Maybe in this case it's the same thing?

Probably not though.

AJQZC · Post by **AJQZC** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:47 pm

Well, there was once when I placed an adventure from MoFI directly into the Editor, the "Height" (or Width) was -999.
When I tried to adjust it, it gave me an error message about something out of bounds.

Would that be it?

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:26 am

Whenever the level's width/height is at 101, if you click on the size indicators to expand it, the game gives an Array index error.

It's nowhere near as common as an MAV, but it's bizarre as heck either way.

mqdar · Post by **mqdar** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:22 am

Qloof234 wrote:Whenever the level's width/height is at 101, if you click on the size indicators to expand it, the game gives an Array index error.

It's nowhere near as common as an MAV, but it's bizarre as heck either way.

Actually, you're wrong, it's a very obviously logical error.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:49 am

I feel dumb now...

Mind explaining? I can't see any reason for it TBH.

mqdar · Post by **mqdar** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:59 am

Qloof234 wrote:I feel dumb now...

Mind explaining? I can't see any reason for it TBH.

What?

Array Index out of Bounds. It really is self-eplanatory. It just means that the level size has gone out of bounds, that is, is greater or less than it's allowed to be.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:25 am

Ummm... How is that obvious?

There's no indicator anywhere in the guides or anything that 101 is the size limit. The only way to find out is extending it (well, trying to) beyond 101.

Besides, it doesn't explain why the Dialog would randomly give off the same error.

cbloopy · Post by **cbloopy** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:50 am

AJQZC wrote:Well, there was once when I placed an adventure from MoFI directly into the Editor, the "Height" (or Width) was -999.
When I tried to adjust it, it gave me an error message about something out of bounds.

I'm surprised it didn't just MAV right away (the few MOFI levels I've tried to load in the Editor just MAVs right away before it finishes loading, although now that I think of it, maybe that's due to the objects rather than the level size).

The reason for what you're seeing is because the MOFI levels added 4 extra bytes at the beginning where the level width used to be, so the editor mistakens those extra bytes as the width and ends up with totally bogus numbers like -999.

mqdar · Post by **mqdar** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:51 am

Qloof234 wrote:Ummm... How is that obvious?

There's no indicator anywhere in the guides or anything that 101 is the size limit. The only way to find out is extending it (well, trying to) beyond 101.

Besides, it doesn't explain why the Dialog would randomly give off the same error.

I hope you're not trying to get at me.

When did I say that it's obvious that 101 is the size limit, and when did I say that it explained why that happened with the dialog?
Well, I think it's pretty obvious anyway...

cbloopy · Post by **cbloopy** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:54 am

cbloopy wrote:Since you deleted the file, I don't have any clue what happened

Implied in my statement is the fact that you should keep a copy of any files created through normal (ie. no hacking or hexing) means that you find to consistently crash the Editor, like that dialogue file you deleted. That way you can actually PM the problem file to Patrick and have a chance for him to maybe fix a possible bug in the Editor.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Sat May 02, 2009 9:01 am

mqdar wrote:
Qloof234 wrote:Ummm... How is that obvious?

There's no indicator anywhere in the guides or anything that 101 is the size limit. The only way to find out is extending it (well, trying to) beyond 101.

Besides, it doesn't explain why the Dialog would randomly give off the same error.
I hope you're not trying to get at me. When did I say that it's obvious that 101 is the size limit, and when did I say that it explained why that happened with the dialog?
Well, I think it's pretty obvious anyway...

No, I'm not trying to get at you or anything.

What I was talking about though was this quote:

mqdar wrote:Actually, you're wrong, it's a very obviously logical error.

I'm obviously not that good at understand things at 2:00 in the morning, so I thought you were saying that it was obvious that the level limit was 101.

As for the dialog, isn't that what this topic is about? Or just the Array Index error?

cbloopy · Post by **cbloopy** » Sat May 02, 2009 9:01 am

mqdar wrote:When did I say that it's obvious that 101 is the size limit, and when did I say that it explained why that happened with the dialog?
Well, I think it's pretty obvious anyway...

Except Emerald141 claims he re-made the dialog and yet it didn't crash again. Also, it doesn't make sense since if it crashes right after you exceed some limits, then you wouldn't have had a chance to save the file with the data that are out of bounds, yet in Emerald141's case the problem data was saved with the file since he got the crash to happen again when he re-loads the dialog file after the crash.

I also recall now that dlcs18 ran into a similar issue when he was working on WA:TRC, and he also had to redo the dialog file starting from a backup copy (from one of the demos he released). So it sounds like there might really be a bug in the dialog Editor, and if people can keep the files that cause the crash and send them Patrick's way (or even my way), it would go a great step towards actually getting the problem fixed (or at least understanding why it happens so people can avoid the problem and avoid losing their work).

mqdar · Post by **mqdar** » Sat May 02, 2009 9:32 am

Qloof234 wrote:
mqdar wrote:
Qloof234 wrote:Ummm... How is that obvious?

There's no indicator anywhere in the guides or anything that 101 is the size limit. The only way to find out is extending it (well, trying to) beyond 101.

Besides, it doesn't explain why the Dialog would randomly give off the same error.
I hope you're not trying to get at me. When did I say that it's obvious that 101 is the size limit, and when did I say that it explained why that happened with the dialog?
Well, I think it's pretty obvious anyway...
No, I'm not trying to get at you or anything.

What I was talking about though was this quote:
mqdar wrote:Actually, you're wrong, it's a very obviously logical error.
I'm obviously not that good at understand things at 2:00 in the morning, so I thought you were saying that it was obvious that the level limit was 101.

As for the dialog, isn't that what this topic is about? Or just the Array Index error?

Ok, I understand.

Serlan · Post by **Serlan** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:55 pm

Off Topic:Array Index Out Of Bounds > AIOOB

Serlan · Post by **Serlan** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:56 pm

Serlan wrote:Off Topic:Array Index Out Of Bounds > AIOOB

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Sat May 02, 2009 9:00 pm

cbloopy wrote:I also recall now that dlcs18 ran into a similar issue when he was working on WA:TRC, and he also had to redo the dialog file starting from a backup copy (from one of the demos he released). So it sounds like there might really be a bug in the dialog Editor, and if people can keep the files that cause the crash and send them Patrick's way (or even my way), it would go a great step towards actually getting the problem fixed (or at least understanding why it happens so people can avoid the problem and avoid losing their work).

If this fact helps, the dialog became broken in the first place when I placed some text into interchange 99 and saved the dialog.

mqdar · Post by **mqdar** » Sat May 02, 2009 9:12 pm

dlcs18 wrote:
cbloopy wrote:I also recall now that dlcs18 ran into a similar issue when he was working on WA:TRC, and he also had to redo the dialog file starting from a backup copy (from one of the demos he released). So it sounds like there might really be a bug in the dialog Editor, and if people can keep the files that cause the crash and send them Patrick's way (or even my way), it would go a great step towards actually getting the problem fixed (or at least understanding why it happens so people can avoid the problem and avoid losing their work).
If this fact helps, the dialog became broken in the first place when I placed some text into interchange 99 and saved the dialog.

Ah, I think I understand now. Maybe 99 is out-of-bounds.

cbloopy · Post by **cbloopy** » Sat May 02, 2009 10:22 pm

dlcs18 wrote:If this fact helps, the dialog became broken in the first place when I placed some text into interchange 99 and saved the dialog.

Thanks, that helps a bit, although it still took over an hour of testing before I hunt down the real culprit. I think I understand the bug a little better now, but it's going to be hard to avoid. I'll let Patrick know right away as it is pretty bad.

Without going into details (since there's still quite a bit I don't quite understand yet myself), there is a count of something that's stored in the dialog file (it's the first byte in fact). When that count goes above 101, the AIOOB error occurs. I'm not sure what exactly it counts (could be number of interchanges, interchanges + answers, I don't know), but due to the bug, it isn't even counting correctly!

Here's the bug: right now, every time you save the dialog, the count is incremented by one no matter what. So if you merely open a dialog and then immediately save it without actually making changes, the count still goes up by one. Here's a test I did:

1) create a new dialog, put some text for interchange 0, and then for answer 0 and answer 1. Save the dialog. Open the dialog file in a hex editor and see the value of the first byte. It's 02.

2) Now, create another dialog with the same content, except you save each time you add some text (so save after entering the text for interchange 0, then save again after answer 0, and again after answer 1). If you open the dialog file in a hex editor now, the value of the first byte is not 02, but 04!

3) Now the kicker: re-open the dialog from step #2 in WA Editor, and then save it again without actually changing anything. Open the dialog file in the hex editor again. The value of the first byte changes to 05! Even though you didn't make a single change in the dialog editor!

So basically, the more number of times you save the dialog, the worse the mis-count becomes, until it eventually goes above 102 and kill your dialog file with it. This also explains why Emerald141 didn't encounter the problem when he re-created the dialog--when he creates it again from sctatch a 2nd time, the number of times the file was saved would be a lot less than the 1st time.

Obvious this is very evil. Patrick needs to fix this serious issue.

In an absolute emergency, there is a way to recover the dialog file shall you hit this problem, but it'll be a little tedious and you'll need a hex editor:

1) make a backup copy of the "damaged" dialog file.

2) open up the dialog file in the hex editor, and look at the value of the first byte. It's probably 66 (which is 102 in decimal).

3) decrease the value of that byte by some sizable amount, say to 46 hex (which is 70). Save.

4) open up the dialog file in WA Editor. It should now load, but don't get happy just yet. Try saving it now and see what happens.

5) It may still crash. If that's the case, this means you need to decrease the byte by a larger amount. Repeat steps 2-4 again lowering the byte more (to say 36 hex or something).

6) If it doens't crash, then congratulations, you dialog's back. But you may lose a little of your work as a result. Open up the dialog again in WA Editor and see what gets discarded as a result (it'll cut off starting from the highest interchange, so start there).

If the amount lost is too much, you have the option to restore from the backup copy, and repeat steps 2-4 decreasing the first byte by a smaller amount, in hopes that you can lose less work while still avoiding the crash.

-------------

I'm going to try and see if Patrick can describe the format of the dialog file to me, so that maybe I can try to write a program that does a better job of doing the recovery described above.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:02 pm

What is that thing it SAYS is a "dialogue" in WA beta? Wait, that's off topic...

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:16 pm

I checked inside the file, it does contain dialog, but it doesn't seem to serve any purpose...

Emerald141 · Post by **Emerald141** » Sun May 03, 2009 9:47 pm

cbloopy · Post by **cbloopy** » Sun May 03, 2009 10:32 pm

Emerald141 wrote:I just remembered that I did hold the Interchange# down until it got to 100. Might that have something to do with it?

Possibly. Definitely avoid high interchange numbers for now. As explained in my post, you will still run into the problem eventually, after your dialog file has been saved many many times, but at least the lower the interchange number, the longer it'll take before you hit the crash.