Inconsistent textures

popo · Post by **popo** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:54 pm

Can someone tell me why some textures that I apply to my models show up in Wonderland and some don't. I do everything the same but some things just won't show, I just get the white shape. The texture file types are ones that the game allows eg jpgs or bmps.

The problem occurs with ready made models which have textures already assigned and those which I have assigned myself, and to homemade models which I have assigned textures to. Although some homemade ones turn out ok.

I must be doing something wrong but I'm flummoxed and getting very frustrated.

Some examples are - a ready made bookshelf that has several textures for the shelves and the books, nothing shows up except for a vase on one of the shelves and that doesn't have a texture just a colour. Then there's a three sided room I built myself to use a scenery that I have assigned texture to that won't show up. Yet a small wall I built and assigned texture to does show up.

Please, someone put me out of my misery.

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:01 pm

popo wrote:Can someone tell me why some textures that I apply to my models show up in Wonderland and some don't. I do everything the same but some things just won't show, I just get the white shape. The texture file types are ones that the game allows eg jpgs or bmps.

The problem occurs with ready made models which have textures already assigned and those which I have assigned myself, and to homemade models which I have assigned textures to. Although some homemade ones turn out ok.

I must be doing something wrong but I'm flummoxed and getting very frustrated.

Some examples are - a ready made bookshelf that has several textures for the shelves and the books, nothing shows up except for a vase on one of the shelves and that doesn't have a texture just a colour. Then there's a three sided room I built myself to use a scenery that I have assigned texture to that won't show up. Yet a small wall I built and assigned texture to does show up.

Please, someone put me out of my misery.

I could try helping if you post your ms3d (I'm assming you're using Milkshape) files here and I'll take a look (and I'll stick to using Milkshape on those).

It's really not your fault, I have yet to found a modeling program that deals with texture coordinates in a "smart" manner. For example, you mentioned that on one cases you only got a color instead of a texture, that might be because the texture coordinates are not mapped correctly so that everything is mapped to a single point in the texture and so you only see the color of that point applied to the object instead of the texture. Unfortunately I've yet to find a surefire way to fix any bad texture mapping which is why I need to look at your models before I have a chance of even trying to explain what you could do to fix them.

I should also mentioned that Milkshape is a bit annoying w/ texture mappings, because it seems that you can only assign coordinates in Milkshape on a per group basis, rather than on individual surfaces. (Although it could just be me not knowing how to use Milkshape correctly.) This can often make the task of fixing bad texture mappings quite a chore if not downright impossible.

Still, I'll make an effort at what you got.

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:04 pm

Incidentally, check to make sure that you have the correct texture skin files in the same folder your models are in. Remember that because we're not using the naming convention MS recommends for the skin files, you should not rename the skin files even as you rename the model. For example, if mymodel.3ds uses thisskinfile.bmp and you rename the model to model1.3ds, you should still keep thisskinfile.bmp's name as is.

popo · Post by **popo** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:25 pm

I make sure I export the textures when I export the model for testing, so the correct texture files are in the folder. I have tried remapping the textures and still have no luck, it seems that if it won't show to begin with it won't show after I've messed with it. I know when I've done something I shouldn't have cos it stops showing in Milkshape too.

The bookshelf I mentioned has a vase that you colour yourself, the rest is textured. The vase is fine, the rest is not. And I have got 'textured' ticked, not 'smooth shaded'.

I would let you look at my room, well it's three walls really, but I'd have to upload the texture too and I don't want to give any secrets away as my son and I are trying to make a level which incorporates them. It's a pity I can't send the files with a PM.

The only thing I've done different this time is to tile the texture so that it didn't stretch with the wall. It looks really good in Milkshape. I did assign groups to the walls, btw, back, left and right. And it's not a case of them being back to front as the walls are made of very thin boxes and the texture is on both sides.

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:23 pm

Well okay, you could just send me the mesh and tell me the names of the texture files the model expects. I'll just substitute in a bunch of my own random textures in place of the actual skin files.

At this point, the only thing I can say is, go thru each group carefully and make sure they've been assigned the correct material, perhaps reassigning it one more time just in case. Then under each material that has an associated texture file, try resetting it back to "None" and then reassociated the material with the skin file again.

Remember that (although by now I'm sure you already knew) the 3D panel in Milkshape sometimes requires clicking for you to get an accurate redraw of what you've done.

Good luck and can't wait to see the level when it comes out!

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:28 pm

Oh one more thing:

popo wrote:I make sure I export the textures when I export the model for testing, so the correct texture files are in the folder.

I just want to note that since textures are in separate files, Milkshape doesn't actually do anything with them during exporting, you just get to specify whether to export the materials information (which contains information on which files to find the texture in for which groups). You still have to copy the texture files themselves into the same folder the models are exported to. Sorry if this is obvious but just want to eliminate all the obvious causes first, ignore this if it's not relevant in your case.

popo · Post by **popo** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:17 am

Yes I do copy them over myself, at the same time as I export the 3ds file. My test folder contains the 3ds file and the texture file.

My three walls only have one texture, the same on all three walls. Like you would do with brickwork, etc. It's like those wallpaper textures you can get that need to be tiled to look like wallpaper. I have it tiled x5 in neg x plane and x2 in neg z plane for the back wall, and the same but in the y and z planes for the left and right walls (the walls are 10 tiles wide by 4 tiles high).

I'll upload the ms3d file for the walls and you can put a texture on them, just remember to tile it in case that's what's causing the problem.

popo · Post by **popo** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:25 am

Here's that bookshelf I mentioned. See if you can get it to show up. Try it in AC3D if you like.

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:35 am

I just look over your room and suddenly I remember. Don't know how I could forgot so quickly after encountering the exact same problem back when I did the billboards!

I don't know if it's MilkShape's fault or Wonderland's fault, or maybe just a limitation of the 3ds file format, but it seems that names of texture files must be 8 characters or less (not counting the extension) in order for the texture to show up in Wonderland. In your room the skin file you used has a filename longer than 8 characters. I believe shortening the skin file's name will do the trick. I did reassigned the model's texture to some other texture file I had and it showed up just fine in Wonderland, so it's probably the name.

This is why the billboard image skins on my billboard models are named like "BB1L.bmp" rather than "billboard1Large.bmp", even though the model files themselves use the long names.

Hope this helps. I haven't looked over your bookshelf but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same problem. If it's not tell me and I'll look at it.

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:01 am

In fact, maybe that's also why your frog model didn't work, I seem to remember the skin file on that model for the eyes are also longer than 8 characters.

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:04 am

I just did a quick test in AC3D, and I think now I remember how I came to figure out it's the skin file name that's causing problems. I might've tried reassigning the textures in AC3D instead of Milkshape, and when I exported to 3DS, AC3D came up with the following warning message:

"Warning - one or more texture names needed to be shortened for the 3DS file. This could cause other software loading this file to fail unless the textures are changed or renamed."

So apparently this is a limitation with the 3DS file format itself.

popo · Post by **popo** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:30 pm

Well, thank you very much Linky, it all makes sense now.

I will go over all model files I've had trouble with and shorten the names. I can't believe it was something so simple, and why on earth doesn't Milkshape tell you the same thing as AC3D does?

You're a real life saver, you know.

popo · Post by **popo** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:59 am

I spent some time last night going over all my texture files, and all the ones that weren't working had names that were too long. I changed them all and now they all work.

Can you tell I'm happy?

I don't think my modelling would have ever got off the ground if it weren't for you Linky.

If I were younger I'd marry you and have your babies.

janetgalle · Post by **janetgalle** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:30 pm

popo wrote:If I were younger I'd marry you and have your babies.

WOW!

You really are...um..er..um...happy aren't you ?

jg

LinkyNStoof · Post by **LinkyNStoof** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:13 pm

popo wrote:I don't think my modelling would have ever got off the ground if it weren't for you Linky.

Hehe, well glad to be of help.

You deserve much credit yourself too. You've managed to figure out yourself a lot of the stuff beyond the basics; all I really did was to start you off on really basic stuff. And you have an excellent sense of what kinds of models to search for and post.

Inconsistent textures

Inconsistent textures

Re: Inconsistent textures