New Level -- What Weird Way Will Work?

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:41 pm

This may not be that hard if you're in the right mindset (there are some very specific tricks in this level) but this puzzle features one of my weirdest solutions... as long as there are no unintended ways, of course. The intended way is just that unusual.

No glitches, one very minor quirk and a whole lot of trickery and misdirection. What weird way will work?

Also, don't jump at the start, or the chomper will move and destroy itself and a certain very useful barrel. Let the chomper out first.

(The working title of this level was first "Bending Logic" and then "Mildly Sane". The sign has a reference to the second one.)

EDIT: Marinus has found a way to save a wooden box by being crafty. However, I'm fearing that this one trick will make all sorts of unintended puzzle solutions pop out, so I had to squander it quickly. The result is a little less misdirection, but whatever, it's still a hard level. Please download the revised "B" version -- if you have been playing the intended way then the solution is exactly the same. The old version is there for historical purposes.

EDIT 2: Amnon has told me that the "B" version is even more broken, so here is the "C" version instead.

|Cookie| · Post by **|Cookie|** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:55 pm

This level looking hard!
I don't know where to start!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:06 pm

kidkidaaa1 wrote:This level looking hard!
I don't know where to start!

Start at the beginning.

Seriously, though, just try various things to understand your possibilities. Try to cover the white button. Try to get the bottom wooden box to the top. Try to let the chomper out without said chomper immediately exploding in the wrong place. That's not the "start order", these are just a few key moves that are more obvious than the others.

yot yot5 · Post by **yot yot5** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:37 pm

The only brainwave I've had so far is this:

Use the chomper/barrel to open up the yellow button?

After that I've used the boulder on the cyan button, a whole lot of crates on the white button, and (perhaps?) avoiding the pink button?

HINT ON HOW TO PUT THESE IDEAS TOGETHER PLEASE!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:38 am

I sent you a PM with a few hints.

Really I want at least one person to solve it before I begin to give real hints outside of PMs... cause that's the problem with all those "misdirection" levels -- the "obvious" way is so different from the actual solution! So hinting towards the "obvious" is just misleading people and hinting towards the real solution destroys the misdirection and makes the level much easier than it should've been. It's very hard to think of hints that work for both the "obvious" and the real solutions.

yot yot5 · Post by **yot yot5** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:33 am

Thanks for the hints (it was kinda "don't put those ideas together" but that's still useful)!
I've decided that you HAVE to use the red timer and pink button, or you can't get the key on the conveyor (unless you use MAJOR tramp combinations). I've also decided to use a fuse of barrels+the tramp to destroy the metal box by the exit. Other then that, I'm working on it...

Muzozavr, if this is a regular level, I'm dreading what you come up with for your 200th.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:41 am

yot yot5 wrote:Thanks for the hints (it was kinda "don't put those ideas together" but that's still useful)!
I've decided that you HAVE to use the red timer and pink button, or you can't get the key on the conveyor (unless you use MAJOR tramp combinations). I've also decided to use a fuse of barrels+the tramp to destroy the metal box by the exit. Other then that, I'm working on it...

Muzozavr, if this is a regular level, I'm dreading what you come up with for your 200th.

Actually I don't know yet, but I'll try hard to make sure that my 200th is something REALLY special.

As for your ideas, well... come to think of it, you need two of the barrels to get to the red timer, right? So by the end, there's nothing left for the metal box at the end, so you still haven't solved the paradox so far.

By the way, I just realized that yesterday was March 8, so all the girls on this forum may consider this level their present.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:45 pm

Trippy level. I'm able to get all the Rainbow Coins and Clock Coins, but unable to blow up the barrel by the exit. I must be using the chomper and boulder incorrectly.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:37 pm

Mark wrote:Trippy level. I'm able to get all the Rainbow Coins and Clock Coins, but unable to blow up the barrel by the exit. I must be using the chomper and boulder incorrectly.

Remember, alarm clocks are not coins.

They are not necessary for the gold star, anyway.

The metal box at the end requires a unique combination of several items... but none of them are boulders.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:07 pm

Your imaginative mind orchestrated some very clever moves.

And one in particular that I've never seen before.

This is one of your best and most challenging efforts!

Thank you for the hint!

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:36 pm

Just a quick note to say that I am still working on this one.

It is no problem to get all coins and no problem to blow up the metal box near the exit - but I am still trying to get both at once.

No hints please

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:02 pm

Amnon wrote:Just a quick note to say that I am still working on this one.

It is no problem to get all coins and no problem to blow up the metal box near the exit - but I am still trying to get both at once.

No hints please

Not really a hint but something that should be very obvious: you'll have to rethink quite a few moves in the "get all coins" part.

It's weirder than you think it is.

Seriously, in terms of clever tricks and difficult puzzles I have somehow managed to strike gold with this... even Mark needed a hint!! I believe in you, though.

I'm pretty sure you'll figure it out.

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:13 pm

Mark wrote:Trippy level. I'm able to get all the Rainbow Coins and Clock Coins, but unable to blow up the barrel by the exit. I must be using the chomper and boulder incorrectly.

I'm at exactly that same point right now. The author of this level might be mildly sane, but the level is insane.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:48 pm

Marinus wrote:
Mark wrote:Trippy level. I'm able to get all the Rainbow Coins and Clock Coins, but unable to blow up the barrel by the exit. I must be using the chomper and boulder incorrectly.
I'm at exactly that same point right now. The author of this level might be mildly sane, but the level is insane.

Remember, alarm clocks are not coins.

I'll PM you some hints since Amnon said he doesn't want any for now.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:55 am

Remember, alarm clocks are not coins.
I'll PM you some hints since Amnon said he doesn't want any for now.

Don't worry - I worked it out long ago that two of the alarm clocks are poisonous, so no hints there.

Meanwhile I'm still working on getting the big jump. Still, no hints please!

yot yot5 · Post by **yot yot5** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:07 pm

Yes...
Yes..!
Yes!
YES!
YES!!!
Muzozavr, you are an utter genius! That jump was one of the weirdest I have EVER SEEN!!!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:52 pm

yot yot5 wrote:Yes...
Yes..!
Yes!
YES!
YES!!!
Muzozavr, you are an utter genius! That jump was one of the weirdest I have EVER SEEN!!!

Told you it was weird...

I just love how almost every single object on the level does not go where you'd expect it to go, making the actual solution (including the jump) seem even weirder than it already is.

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:38 am

Hi Muzo

Would you please give me some more information about that jump. I think I have to get something up and down over the ice, left of the upper green TP, but I don't see a way to do this.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:24 am

I think I have to get something up and down over the ice, left of the upper green TP, but I don't see a way to do this.

I also did not find a way to do it, but nevertheless I used the editor to create that situation, and you know what? This didn't work either

So better not waste your time in this direction!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:15 am

I sent a PM to Marinus. Meanwhile, Amnon can ask or not ask for hints, it's his decision. Just let me know if you do need some.

yot yot5 · Post by **yot yot5** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:31 pm

The hardest part for me was getting the timing between the boulder/box. After that it was no problem at all.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:44 pm

A small trick was found by Marinus in the white button section that allowed the player to save an extra wooden box. However, I fear that it may make all sorts of unintended puzzle solutions pop out, so I had to squander it quickly. Please download the "B" version from the first post.

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:54 pm

A small trick was found by Marinus in the white button section that allowed the player to save an extra wooden box.

Oh, I used that trick too, but even the extra wooden box was of no avail and I am still stuck - I can see the big jump, but can't get the timing right.

On the other hand, with version B's two metal boxes I could do so much more, so much more although I know it's unintended. Better take that flame back as well as the wooden/metal box altogether, so Marinus' (and mine) trick will become the standard modus-operandi.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:33 pm

Wait, so you can use the metal box somewhere else and then bring it back ohdarnitwhenwillilearntomakelevelsthatworkperfectlytheFIRSTtime!!!

EDIT: I have changed the box back to wooden, kept the flame and made the button square. Amnon, please try the "C" version.

As for the timing, you're probably doing it too late. Try pushing the box there AS the boulder is entering the necessary tile, not WHEN it's already there. It's only there for a very short time, so you have to start pushing slightly before it's there.

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:26 pm

Don't worry; although we might have found another trick, I wouldn't have been able to finish this level all by myself, without your hint. I think this is one of the most interesting levels I've ever played! It's a kind of magic.

Actually, if we take all separate moves in the level, then there is no move I never saw before. However, thanks to a genius complex combination of clever tricks, I could not find it on my own.

So, many thanks for this great level, and also for the hints!

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:28 pm

Well, I finally made it - but only with your hint, Muzo.

You see, if I knew the correct move to prepare for the big jump, then timing would have been the least of my problems,

Unfortunately, what I had in mind as the "big jump" was a different move that could have potentially allowed for the 5-jump, but only potentially because the timing never worked quite right - I once ALMOST got it that way, but no, so I kept trying and trying for days to perfect that other move.

Now when you mentioned, Muzo, that pushing a box was involved in the big jump while the boulder is rolling, it all became too obvious because my other move had no box-push in it. Following that hint the rest was too clear.

|Cookie| · Post by **|Cookie|** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:37 pm

Oops!
I forget about this level!
I'm gonna play it now!

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:25 pm

Amnon wrote:Well, I finally made it - but only with your hint, Muzo.

You see, if I knew the correct move to prepare for the big jump, then timing would have been the least of my problems,

Unfortunately, what I had in mind as the "big jump" was a different move that could have potentially allowed for the 5-jump, but only potentially because the timing never worked quite right - I once ALMOST got it that way, but no, so I kept trying and trying for days to perfect that other move.

Now when you mentioned, Muzo, that pushing a box was involved in the big jump while the boulder is rolling, it all became too obvious because my other move had no box-push in it. Following that hint the rest was too clear.

If it's possible, could you please PM me that move you were trying to use? If it's cool and interesting enough and if I can tweak the timing restrictions to make it actually usable, I might make a separate level based on it...

Amnon · Post by **Amnon** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:11 pm

PM sent.

Marinus · Post by **Marinus** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:36 pm

I'm also curious about this, but if Muzozavr wants to use that trick in his next level, I'll have a bit patience.