Generic Wonderland Facts and Findings Topic

[billy bob]

A new significant find has been made!

If we select "Restart Adventure", then our inventory resets itself as soon as the option "Restart Adventure" is selected (not once as the fade out screen ends) and the inventory reverts back to what it was before the adventure was started.
The new thing is - if we select "Restart Adventure", then save the game before the fade out screen ends, then reload the save, then the fade out screen will be cancelled and we will be brought back to our position in the adventure, but the inventory will have reset itself despite us not being back at the start of the adventure.
So we can, in any adventure, at any point, have the inventory that we had before the adventure started.
One thing to mention with the technique above is that it doesn't work in WA3 because we can't pause in fade out screens in WA3.

There is another method of resetting the inventory without being back at the start of the adventure. This is done by selecting "Restart Adventure" just before going into a star, then collecting the star cancels out the restart adventure fade out screen. This method is viable in POTZ, however you will lose seven seconds because you can't skip through the collecting star fade out screen, you will have to wait through it because you can't press ESC (interestingly enough, you can't press ESC in the next area you enter after that adventure as well).

See this post for some uses that this will have.

[sonicoll]

I have no idea why one of the sign in the original Wonderland has no content.
It's in the level "short ... but no so sweet".
Does anyone know the reason?

[Caton]

ms must have forgot to add it. I think.

[billy bob]

Turns out Wee Stinkers and Baby Boomers can be revived after reaching Wee Stinker Exits without much difficulty at all.

Wonderland Adventures Trilogy - Invisible Wee Stinker/Baby Boomer Glitch

So far I've found three notable differences that an invisible Wee Stinker/Baby Boomer has from a regular Wee Stinker/Baby Boomer:
They're invisible. The sparks from Baby Boomers with lit fuses can still be seen. The "Z"s from sleeping Wee Stinkers can still be seen.
They pass through spellballs.
They don't react to Wee Stinker exits.

As far as I know this glitch can be done in any adventure with a Wee Stinker exit and multiple Wee Stinkers/Baby Boomers.

[MyNameIsKooky]

Nice find. My favorite part is how the cursor blows way up when you hold down the button.

[billy bob]

So we know about "Ghost Saving" in WA1 right? The glitch is activated by saving the game then reloading the save. Then the player will be in the ghost state and certain objects will pass through the player. The glitch is deactivated as soon as the player moves.

Well, we now also have "Ghost Blinking" in the entire WA trilogy. One way of activating the glitch is by performing this glitch, then timing it so that the player is in the middle of moving when the Blink spellball lands. The other way of activating the glitch is by performing this glitch with the second and third conditions met but the first doesn't have to be (it doesn't matter if the game isn't WA1). Then the player will be in the ghost state and certain objects will pass through the player. The glitch is deactivated as soon as the player moves.

[billy bob]

When the player talks with an NPC or a sign or a command 21, on the first dialogue box there will be a delay before the dialogue can be continued. This delay is because the box around the text hasn't fully faded in yet. The dialogue can only receive input once its box has fully faded in.

Now, I have discovered something that we can do with this. If we pause the game just before a dialogue starts, then resume the game, then the box for the dialogue will already be there from the pause screen, so we can answer the dialogue instantly without having to wait. The box from the pause screen seems to be the same box used in dialogues, so when the dialogue is activated the box doesn't have to fade back in so far. The closer we time the pause to the dialogue starting the less delay there is in the dialogue.

Would this be faster in speedruns? Certainly for a TAS, but not so much for a human with potential for error. For it to save time for a weak human such as myself I'd have to position my cursor on where "Resume Game" would appear then time ESC as near to the dialogue starting as possible then instantly click then instantly press enter. This is actually doable with enough practice, but it would be slower overall if we aren't instant in the menu.

It would be useful for saving in game time though. Say under the circumstances, we wanted to answer a dialogue box quickly then do something else before a timer elapses. We could save in game time by pausing just before the dialogue box then instantly answering the dialogue box then doing that something else just before the timer elapses.

The other thing it could be useful for is single adventure speedruns. I know that save/loading is banned, and I presume pausing is banned too? When the game is paused the timer pauses too, so you can't abuse the timer by making it reset or anything. But you can take a break in the middle of a single adventure speedrun which seems wrong. If pausing is allowed in single adventure speedruns it would definitely save time but I don't think it is allowed.

[Wonderland King]

I'm not sure about your last question, but this... this is amazing.

[billy bob]

I've found a glitch in WA2 and WA3 that makes inventory slots disappear (it doesn't work in WA1). That is, when the inventory is opened, the inventory slot just won't appear and cannot be clicked on, but it can still contain items. And when I say disappeared, I mean the inventory slot will continue to be invisible on all saves and on all profiles. Once as the glitch is activated the inventory slot can only be brought back by closing and reopening the game or by performing the inventory across saves glitch then (without closing the inventory) clicking on the inventory icon.


Here's how to make inventory slots disappear:

1. Get the glitched inventory state that is required for inventory across saves. That is, from a distance click on a stinker or a sign or a command 21, then open the inventory before you reach it (then when the dialogue starts the inventory remains open and you can now walk around and even load a save and the inventory won't close).

2. With this glitched inventory still open, perform the stealing items from adventures glitch. That is, in an adventure move one space away from an item then start moving into the item but just before you collect it restart the adventure (then the item will be collected in the restart adventure fade out screen, and before the fade out screen ends the slot with the item is the only slot visible).

3. Once as the adventure has restarted, without doing anything else simply restart the adventure again. If you open the inventory before restarting the adventure for the second time, it won't work.


So after the adventure has been restarted for the second time then the glitch is complete. If you open the inventory then the slot where the item was collected will be missing, and will continue to be missing on any save on any profile. The glitch can be repeated for multiple or even all slots to be missing.
There are two ways to get missing inventory slots back. One way is to close then reopen the game. The other way is to get the glitched inventory state, then load another save, then with the inventory still open click the inventory icon.


I can't be entirely sure about why this glitch happens or why the glitch can be fixed with inventory across saves.
But here's what I can gather:
Certain things in the game close the inventory. Most of the things close the inventory well, but there are ones that close the inventory badly. So far I've only thought of three that close the inventory badly: adventure title screens and cutscenes and main menu. If you get the game to close the inventory badly, then without opening the inventory get the game to do something that would close the inventory well if it were open, then the glitch activates. It's actually a bit more complicated than that it should be "...that would close the inventory well if it were open and in a glitched state..." and there are actually three types of inventory closing: some of them close the inventory well no matter what (start adventure fade out screens, restart adventure fade out screens), some of them close the inventory well but only if it isn't in a glitched state (area transitions, pausing), some of them close the inventory badly (adventure title screens, cutscenes, exiting game).
As for why inventory across saves then clicking on inventory icon can fix the glitch, my guess is that it's something to do with the inventory being opened when it's already open. Because when you have the inventory open (even if it's in it's glitched state) then clicking on the inventory icon only closes the inventory. But when a save is loaded, the inventory icon goes back to opening the inventory when clicked. But if you perform inventory across saves then the inventory will be open (albeit in its glitched state) at the same time as the inventory icon's function being to open the inventory. So my guess is when the inventory icon is clicked after inventory across saves, the inventory is already open in its glitched state and then the normal inventory is opened. That means the slots are activated twice, and that brings back the missing slots because they were deactivated twice, or something like that.

So cutscenes. That's another method. Another way of activating the glitch is to get a cutscene to start with the inventory open. Cutscenes at the end of adventures won't work, cutscenes at the end of dialogues do work but the inventory will have to be in its glitched state to be open during the dialogue. Then after the cutscene has finished an adventure must be entered before the inventory is reopened. Then once as an adventure is entered then the glitch will have activated, but because all the slots were displayed when the cutscene started this time all the inventory slots will be invisible.

Both methods use inventory across saves but that's just because both methods just so happen to require the inventory being open in either the pause menu or dialogues. It is in fact possible to perform the adventure title screen method without inventory across saves it just means being really quick. So if the item is clicked on from afar then the inventory is opened normally then just before the item is collected the game is paused then the options to restart adventure are extremely quickly clicked then it can work without inventory across saves.

I believe this glitch doesn't work in WA1 because in WA1 adventure title screens don't close the inventory (the slots can actually be seen but not selected on the title screen). The cutscene method doesn't work either, even though cutscenes still close the inventory in WA1.


EDIT: This entire glitch also works with closing the inventory by exiting the game, which can be done pretty much anywhere! All you need to do is get the glitched inventory state (start a dialogue with the inventory already open), then exit the game to the main menu. Then load a save then without opening the inventory start/restart an adventure.

[Wonderland King]

Bump, but using a dialog like this I had created (except with a larger data value, obviously), I collected 40,000 coins, saved the game, exited, returned to my save slot, and found that I had exactly -2,147,483,648 coins.

Any explanations?

[cloudrac3r]

Not quite sure what you're on about, but I can tell you what the number means.
In programming, when you store a value, you have to choose a type. These tells the computer how much memory space that variable will take. Obviously, if you're asking for someone's age, then to save on memory you would use a byte, which can store values from 0-255, rather than a double, which is something like -2*10^300 to 2*10^100, including decimal places. This is because you don't need such numbers, therefore to save on memory you use the datatype that matches the range of values you need to store.
Another datatype is a long. It is 32 bits - 4 bytes - in size, and it can hold numbers from -2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,648 and no decimal places.
Now, the way it is stored is as follows:
Let's pretend it's 4 bits.
0 0 1 1
All the bits which are set to 1, except the the first bit, add to the value of the number. This number is 6. Now look at this one:
1 0 0 1
The first bit is set to one. Since this (imaginary) datatype can hold negative numbers, the first digit does that. If it is set to 1, a large negative number is SUBTRACTED from the total. The other bits will add to the number as before. This number is -7.
With 32 bits, if they are set like this: 1000 0000 0000 0000 (and 16 more zeroes) then you are taking away a HUGE negative number and adding on nothing. 10^15 = 2,147,483,648. See what I mean?

TL,DR: You messed with the binary data of the coin count. Now it holds the following binary number: 1000 0000 0000 0000 (and 16 more zeroes). This is the smallest number that the coin counter can hold, and it is equal to -2,147,483,648. Well, either that, or you tried to add 1 to +2,147,483,647.
Is that enough detail?

EDIT 19/8/16: Bad maths fixed

[garirry]

To be precise, an 8-bit number is 256 possibilities, a 16-bit number is 65536, a 24-bit number is roughly 16777000, and a 32-bit number is roughly 4 billion. Each bit is either a 1or a 0, allowing for 2 possibilities, and when multiple are combined, it allows for more options. 2^(the amount of bits allocated for the block of memory) will give you the total amount of possibilities for ypur amount of bits. If still confused, imagine our regular decimal system. One number will allow you 10 choices (0-9), and the further you add, the bigger the number can be (for four numbers, the options are 0000-9999).

Cloudrac said something similar, that in most cases in the modern world, the very first bit is allocated for negative numbers, meaning that there is half as less possibilities as the bit size. An 8-bit number will give you a range of -128 to 127 instead of 0-255. Your case proves something interesting I talked about ages ago. "How much coins do you need to get to overflow the value and for the count to become negative?" Clearly, the answer is that this is a 32-bit number that is used (since modern games have so much free memory to play with), as -214748363648 is half the amount for a 32-bit value (2^32). So if we're super-dedicated, we could get the coin count to 2.14 million and increase it until it overflows.

The only thing that makes no sense is why would this happen to just 4000 coins.

[Wonderland King]

Interesting, thanks!

[Wonderland King]

DP, but first of all, I made a typo in my above post. I meant to say I started with 40,000 coins instead of 4,000 coins. Sorry about that. I'll fix it ASAP.

Anyway, I've done a bit more research and found that if you save, exit, and reload with 20,721 coins or less, the amount stays the same. If you save, exit, and reload with 20,722 coins or more, the amount of coins becomes -(2^31) when you reload. This number isn't a power of two, so I'm not sure what its significance is.

EDIT: And if you save/exit/load with -(2^31) coins, the amount of coins you have goes back to 0.

[Wonderland King]

Sorry for posting so much, but if anyone wants to test this out for themselves, I've uploaded a level for their convenience. It's not much, but it does save some time. If anyone else could confirm the 20,722 coins phenomenon, it would be much appreciated.

[billy bob]

Some facts and findings I haven't mentioned before:



Pausing with menu icon in dialogues

When a dialogue box is active all the icons on the screen become unavailable except the menu icon in the top right corner. Unlike pausing with ESC, pausing with icon during a dialogue can have strange effects.
When you are talking with an NPC then the NPC animation is usually different from when you're not talking to them. The NPC may start facing the Player rather than not facing the Player, or the NPC may stand up rather than sitting down, or the NPC may stop waving rather than waving.
When you pause by clicking the menu icon while talking to an NPC, then for one frame the NPC animation will go back to what it normally was before you started talking to them. So for example, if you stop an NPC from dancing by starting a dialogue with them then click on the top right menu icon, then the NPC will start dancing again for one frame (the one frame the game is paused on).
Aside from that, there's another effect. This one concerns the Player.
You may have noticed that, if you are inside a dialogue, then the Player dies, then the Player death animation will not be able to progress until the dialogue is over.
But it turns out that there is actually a way to progress the Player death animation without finishing the dialogue, and that is to click on the menu icon during the dialogue. If you click on the menu icon during the dialogue, then the player death animation will advance by one frame.
So if you pause the game by clicking on the menu icon enough times then you can go through the entire Player death animation during the dialogue.


Keeping items when Floinging back

When you Floing back in time all items in the inventory that aren't magic gloves, spy-eye, lamp, or glow gem get replaced with empty inventory spaces. But when the game does this, it only checks for slots that have had an item collected into them at some point in the game. Meaning that if an inventory slot has never had an item collected into it before, then its contents won't get replaced by an empty space when Floinging back in time.
How does an inventory slot contain an item without ever having an item collected into it? Swapping. An inventory slot can have an item swapped into it without ever having an item collected into it.
So if you swap an item into an inventory slot that has never had an item collected into it then the item will be kept when Floinging back in time.
Why the game only checks inventory slots that have had an item collected them is a mystery. Why the game even remembers for each inventory slot whether it's had an item collected into it is a mystery.


Blinking out of cages

In WA1 we can bring infinite Blink into areas that contain cages.
When you are trapped inside a closed cage, you can escape by Blinking out of it. But when you Blink out of a cage, the game does not truly know that you are free, thus weird effects take place. The effects that I have noticed so far:
Just like when you are trapped inside a cage, you can never move. Whether you're trying to move by arrow keys or clicking with mouse, it just won't work.
If a gate rises from below you, you won't die. You'll just be... inside the gate.
If you land on water you won't drown. You'll just be... on top of the water. You can land on water by flying onto it or by Blinking onto a transporter just before it moves.

[FinnThor]

Quoted from In-Progress Adventure Pictures topic:

Two days ago, I (might have) discovered an interesting trick-

You know how if you move and fire a fireball in front of you at the same time you'll burn yourself? The same applies when you try it while flying. However, I found that with frame-perfect timing, you can shoot a barrel just in front of you and keep flying without dying.

Has anybody else discovered this already, or is this something new I found?

(Bump)

[jdl]

Hey look it's a 4-year thread bump!

I was watching someone's playthrough of WSW and noticed something very odd that happened at the end of the level "The Treadmill".
After pushing the powder keg into the water and standing on it, an explosion sound happens and the keg completely disappears!
The tile still acts like floor though, and I also noticed that the "Stinker standing on floating object" animation doesn't play anymore...

I'm not sure if this is a well known glitch or not, but I'd love to know why it happens because it looks completely random.
Here's the video: https://youtu.be/oKXlxeSUxho?t=1062 (17 mins. 42 seconds in)

[sodapop!]

After pushing the powder keg into the water and standing on it, an explosion sound happens and the keg completely disappears!
The tile still acts like floor though, and I also noticed that the "Stinker standing on floating object" animation doesn't play anymore...

I’ve actually seen this happen when playing some custom levels here- I have no idea what causes it either.

[gottfriedjacob5]

While browsing the internet i found this (https://issuu.com/indiegames/docs/igm_issue_5/16) review of MOFI. It calls the plot of the game "flimsy" and "clumsy".

[Wonderman109]

While browsing the internet i found this (https://issuu.com/indiegames/docs/igm_issue_5/16) review of MOFI. It calls the plot of the game "flimsy" and "clumsy".

I can see why they'd argue those points. MoFI changes scenes and moves characters a lot while keeping the story mostly hidden from us, left to the imagination. However, that's intentional design. It keeps the game feeling fresh in a way that WA1 and PotZ cannot do.

[gottfriedjacob5]

While browsing the internet i found this (https://issuu.com/indiegames/docs/igm_issue_5/16) review of MOFI. It calls the plot of the game "flimsy" and "clumsy".

I can see why they'd argue those points. MoFI changes scenes and moves characters a lot while keeping the story mostly hidden from us, left to the imagination. However, that's intentional design. It keeps the game feeling fresh in a way that WA1 and PotZ cannot do.

How is the story hidden from us more than WA1 and PotZ? It is pretty clear what is going on most of the time. It also says that "Sometimes personality-challenged NPC's block your path".

[Wonderman109]

While browsing the internet i found this (https://issuu.com/indiegames/docs/igm_issue_5/16) review of MOFI. It calls the plot of the game "flimsy" and "clumsy".

I can see why they'd argue those points. MoFI changes scenes and moves characters a lot while keeping the story mostly hidden from us, left to the imagination. However, that's intentional design. It keeps the game feeling fresh in a way that WA1 and PotZ cannot do.

How is the story hidden from us more than WA1 and PotZ? It is pretty clear what is going on most of the time. It also says that "Sometimes personality-challenged NPC's block your path".

We don't really know it's the Z-bots until the end and even then how exactly they orchestrated it all is confusing. There's never any real explanation for the temple or the abandoned mine either.

[gottfriedjacob5]

I can see why they'd argue those points. MoFI changes scenes and moves characters a lot while keeping the story mostly hidden from us, left to the imagination. However, that's intentional design. It keeps the game feeling fresh in a way that WA1 and PotZ cannot do.

How is the story hidden from us more than WA1 and PotZ? It is pretty clear what is going on most of the time. It also says that "Sometimes personality-challenged NPC's block your path".

We don't really know it's the Z-bots until the end and even then how exactly they orchestrated it all is confusing. There's never any real explanation for the temple or the abandoned mine either.

It IS explained how the Z-Bots orchestrated it all. The Z-Bots built the Sky Machine in Wonderland, presumably while they occupied it during RTW's Deluxe Set. I assume that once Peegue was rescued and the Rainbow Spirits were returned to the Rainbow World, the Z-Bot leaders were arrested and brought before the Constellation Council. They had the coordinates of the Wonderland wiped from their memory banks, and the majority of them were exiled back to their home planet (some remained behind, as seen in WSW). The Constellation Council was unaware that the Sky Machine existed, so once it was activated, all Z-Bot Prime needed to do was locate the signal and he could have his minions invade Wonderland.

[gottfriedjacob5]

On another note, there is a bit of foreshadowing that can be seen in the Sky Machine room near the beginning of the game.

DSAPICVENAERS.

[Wonderman109]

How is the story hidden from us more than WA1 and PotZ? It is pretty clear what is going on most of the time. It also says that "Sometimes personality-challenged NPC's block your path".

We don't really know it's the Z-bots until the end and even then how exactly they orchestrated it all is confusing. There's never any real explanation for the temple or the abandoned mine either.

It IS explained how the Z-Bots orchestrated it all. The Z-Bots built the Sky Machine in Wonderland, presumably while they occupied it during RTW's Deluxe Set. I assume that once Peegue was rescued and the Rainbow Spirits were returned to the Rainbow World, the Z-Bot leaders were arrested and brought before the Constellation Council. They had the coordinates of the Wonderland wiped from their memory banks, and the majority of them were exiled back to their home planet (some remained behind, as seen in WSW). The Constellation Council was unaware that the Sky Machine existed, so once it was activated, all Z-Bot Prime needed to do was locate the signal and he could have his minions invade Wonderland.

Ok fair, temple and mine are still mysteries though. I won't go into the Mystery levels.

As for that secret message...what?

[gottfriedjacob5]

We don't really know it's the Z-bots until the end and even then how exactly they orchestrated it all is confusing. There's never any real explanation for the temple or the abandoned mine either.

It IS explained how the Z-Bots orchestrated it all. The Z-Bots built the Sky Machine in Wonderland, presumably while they occupied it during RTW's Deluxe Set. I assume that once Peegue was rescued and the Rainbow Spirits were returned to the Rainbow World, the Z-Bot leaders were arrested and brought before the Constellation Council. They had the coordinates of the Wonderland wiped from their memory banks, and the majority of them were exiled back to their home planet (some remained behind, as seen in WSW). The Constellation Council was unaware that the Sky Machine existed, so once it was activated, all Z-Bot Prime needed to do was locate the signal and he could have his minions invade Wonderland.

Ok fair, temple and mine are still mysteries though. I won't go into the Mystery levels.

As for that secret message...what?

Both times you go to the Sky Machine room, if you look on top of some of the machines, you can see the message: DSAPICVENAERS. This is an anagram, and when you rearrange the letters, it says: Space Invaders, referring to the fact that the Z-Bots built the Sky Machine. There is also numbers above the letters, which says: 02063950403564. I have no clue what that means. But foreshadowing exists for the role that the Z-Bots have in the game.

[Wonderman109]

It IS explained how the Z-Bots orchestrated it all. The Z-Bots built the Sky Machine in Wonderland, presumably while they occupied it during RTW's Deluxe Set. I assume that once Peegue was rescued and the Rainbow Spirits were returned to the Rainbow World, the Z-Bot leaders were arrested and brought before the Constellation Council. They had the coordinates of the Wonderland wiped from their memory banks, and the majority of them were exiled back to their home planet (some remained behind, as seen in WSW). The Constellation Council was unaware that the Sky Machine existed, so once it was activated, all Z-Bot Prime needed to do was locate the signal and he could have his minions invade Wonderland.

Ok fair, temple and mine are still mysteries though. I won't go into the Mystery levels.

As for that secret message...what?

Both times you go to the Sky Machine room, if you look on top of some of the machines, you can see the message: DSAPICVENAERS. This is an anagram, and when you rearrange the letters, it says: Space Invaders, referring to the fact that the Z-Bots built the Sky Machine. There is also numbers above the letters, which says: 02063950403564. I have no clue what that means. But foreshadowing exists for the role that the Z-Bots have in the game.

Probably the numbers correspond to the anagrams used in Mystery Message and the like.

[gottfriedjacob5]

There is one tile on The Cliffs in MOFI that you cannot walk on. It is to the right of the entrance for "The Ascent".

[Wonderman109]

There is one tile on The Cliffs in MOFI that you cannot walk on. It is to the right of the entrance for "The Ascent".

Yeah, that always bugged me. There's a few others like that, mostly in the first game.