Comparison: Wonderland Adventures and Wonderland Classic

janellesnip · Post by **janellesnip** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:30 am

To whomever it may concern,
I have been playing around in both Classic and And Adventures lately, and keep making comparisons in my head between the two. I have felt a few times like I want to write about it, although I do not know whether I will think of everything in this post. (It is also not important to me that it be answered.)
First there is a huge difference in the controls. In the classic series, if I want the character to go forward and to make an immediate right, I hold down both appropriate arrows; the characters goes forward as far as it can and turns right automatically. In the Adventures series, if I hold down two keys but only one is possible, the character stops. (I know the Adventures series is supposed to be played with the mouse, but I just do not have the coordination to be fast enough with the mouse to play it all that way.)
Another comparison is the saving features. In the classic series, you have to keep starting a level over and over until you get it right; in the Adventures series, you can save every little step you make, which is a huge advantage in my eyes.
Another difference in the saving features is that the classic series saves your game at the last completed level automatically under your name whenever you quit the game; but the Adventures series has room for exactly six games. (I do not know whether it is six games per player or six total, since I am the only player on my computer.) And it does not save automatically.
The biggest disadvantage of Adventures as compared to Classic is the mapping of the game. In the classic series you always know where you are. You can do things in order or out of order, but you do not get lost. In Adventures you wander about a world; sometimes have to get back to where you were before, but it can be ages before you figure out how to get there. And once you have finished a section, there is no way for you to go back to make certain that you have found all levels in that section. There is not even a list of levels, showing which ones you have completed. Unless you remember them all by name, you never find out. If you want to get back to a world or a level, you have to wait and find Mr. Floing, wherever he may be. This is an interesting feature, but I cannot count on it to appear when I want it.
What I did not (yet) try is to get an unlimited number of coins and gems: Is it possible to do so by asking the Floing wizard to play the same level over and over?
The fact that there is not a compulsory order is good -- but then, you don't have to play the classic series in order, either.

Just some thoughts at half past five.

Janelle

popo · Post by **popo** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:15 am

What I did not (yet) try is to get an unlimited number of coins and gems: Is it possible to do so by asking the Floing wizard to play the same level over and over?

No, it's not possible to keep getting more and more coins by playing a level over and over. You will only gain things you missed the first time. You can get extra points though, either by completing it faster or using the cheat button as soon as the level starts, but as points don't actually help you at all in the game it's a bit of a waste of time.

I much prefer the game controls in the Adventures series. I'm much more comfortable using the mouse than the keyboard, although there are instances in Adventures when the keyboard is the best thing to use.

You can see a list of the levels you have done when you visit the floing guy, but you can't see the ones you haven't done so don't know how many you have missed. Maybe if the levels were numbered you'd have a better idea of what you missed.

Another difference in the saving features is that the classic series saves your game at the last completed level automatically under your name whenever you quit the game; but the Adventures series has room for exactly six games. (I do not know whether it is six games per player or six total, since I am the only player on my computer.) And it does not save automatically.

Not sure exactly what you mean here. There are nine save slots for a player's particular game. So do you mean that you can only have six different player's games (profiles) saved?

As for wandering around getting lost, that's what I loved about the game, so much more like real life.

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:12 am

WA:MOFI and WA editor got 9 save slots while you only have 6 in WA.

I pretty much consider WA Series a total remake of Wonderland, so there isn't much to compare between them, except I liked the HQ music in WA Series.

What I want to see is a game that has WA and RTW elements, such as WA hub, RTW/WA levels, and I am sure that both of the classic and adventure loves will love the new game.

But what I want to see most (and other MMO lovers out there) is an MMO version of the above game I recommened. There are many techinical differculties (e.g: Blitz3D does not support MMO) but if MS went through the differculties the output would be fantastic.

And please, kep all the musics

tyteen

popo · Post by **popo** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:26 pm

tyteen4a03 wrote:WA:MOFI and WA editor got 9 save slots while you only have 6 in WA.

Funny, I have 7 save slots in my copy of WA, and I only used 4 of them.

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:45 pm

janellesnip wrote:In the classic series, if I want the character to go forward and to make an immediate right, I hold down both appropriate arrows; the characters goes forward as far as it can and turns right automatically. In the Adventures series, if I hold down two keys but only one is possible, the character stops. (I know the Adventures series is supposed to be played with the mouse, but I just do not have the coordination to be fast enough with the mouse to play it all that way.)

Here is why that happens:

MS's way of putting the keyboard controls in was to make it so if you press a key, it actually simulates clicking the mouse in a position which relates to the keyboard button press, for example 1 tile below the character when you press down. And because of that, if you have something like this

X|
S|
X|

S = stinker
| = wall
X = floor

and press both right and down arrow keys, it's simulating a mouse click on the tile that is red in my example, but since it can't reach there, it just stays where it is at.

janellesnip · Post by **janellesnip** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:18 pm

Another difference in the saving features is that the classic series saves your game at the last completed level automatically under your name whenever you quit the game; but the Adventures series has room for exactly six games. (I do not know whether it is six games per player or six total, since I am the only player on my computer.) And it does not save automatically.
Not sure exactly what you mean here. There are nine save slots for a player's particular game. So do you mean that you can only have six different player's games (profiles) saved?

Dear Popo,
what I mean is that the saving technique in the adventures series is a bit strange to me.
Specifically in the quote, I was half saying, half asking, that/whether the game has space for six saved games (or nine) per player or six/nine for all players to share between them. I think a later poster on this thread says that it is six/nine per player.
What is strange to me about it is, that on the one hand, the game prompts you five times before it closes, to make certain you REALLY want to leave, and that you have saved what you wish to save; on the other ... I can't think of anything intelligent to say about "the other hand".

Because the two game series are different, this difference in saving scheme makes sense; at the same time it is frustrating: If I ever want to go back to check something out, the only way I can do that is to meet the Floing guy. . . Yes, like real life, but a bit dependent if you ask me. Or you can save your game in another slot, go back to what you were doing before, and come back to that slot later, to see whether you understand it differently -- by which time you are in a completely other place in the game and may not be able to locate that spot in your current game. It is very adventurous and frustrating at the same time.

As for wandering around getting lost, that's what I loved about the game, so much more like real life.

Yes. Still a bit difficult for a (sometimes clumsy) perfectionist to accept.
I guess the place I am most worried about having missed levels is near the beginning, where stinky is in a huge system of cliffs with bridges between them, on two levels, with rickety bridges between them, and levels here and there.
I was working my way through this system, but suddenly when I reached a particular star, I was moved out of that area, not knowing whether it was because I had completed all the levels in it, or because I had found the most important one.
I think that area comes shortly after the first chomper level of MOFI. . . where one single chomper chases you into another screen, while the wizard and your friend stand beside and watch.

popo · Post by **popo** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:52 am

Ah, yes, that is a fault of the game if you ask me. While you're still in Wondertown (in MOFI) if you don't complete all the levels then you can't get back there once you get to Fire Island. Once on Fire Island you can go from place to place to make sure you've done them all. You can't get back to Wondertown until the end of the game.

Now, I'm not sure if you don't go to Fire Island until you've done all the levels in Wondertown, so what I've just said might be irrelevant.

What is strange to me about it is, that on the one hand, the game prompts you five times before it closes, to make certain you REALLY want to leave, and that you have saved what you wish to save; on the other ... I can't think of anything intelligent to say about "the other hand".

LittleZbot · Post by **LittleZbot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:20 am

popo wrote:Ah, yes, that is a fault of the game if you ask me. While you're still in Wondertown (in MOFI) if you don't complete all the levels then you can't get back there once you get to Fire Island. Once on Fire Island you can go from place to place to make sure you've done them all. You can't get back to Wondertown until the end of the game.

Now, I'm not sure if you don't go to Fire Island until you've done all the levels in Wondertown, so what I've just said might be irrelevant.

What is strange to me about it is, that on the one hand, the game prompts you five times before it closes, to make certain you REALLY want to leave, and that you have saved what you wish to save; on the other ... I can't think of anything intelligent to say about "the other hand".

As far as I now, you can't go to Fire Island Until all the levels in Wonderfalls are done. And it is Wonderfalls not Wondertown.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:39 am

Off-topic:

janellesnip wrote:In the Adventures series

The moment I read this, I instantly thought of this:

And only because of the title. I need to get a life.

------------

On-topic: I honestly felt that Wonderland Adventure's hub was easy enough to navigate, compared to MoFI's. Everything seems to look the same - jungle area with x decorations here, another jungle area with the same decorations there... Not that it's bad, because it is a lot like real life.

AJQZC · Post by **AJQZC** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:16 pm

No savegame function in the Classic trilogy?

quick11 · Post by **quick11** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:44 pm

This is to say, the Classic trilogy has the ability to skip stages (or worlds) and you can play the last level directly even when you haven't completed the first, while this is not possible in WA, right?

Somewhat. In TOW and RTW, you can use the "all worlds unlocked" option, but there isn't one in WA or MOFI (also not in WSW, by the way). However, you can still cheat to the end (same with WSW, too).

As for my personal opinion, I like the Classic series better than the Adventure series, but the Adventure series is still really good.

And the Wonderfalls levels are all done before you arrive at Fire Island, at least I'm pretty sure.

And each player gets their own 7/9 savefiles.

eee226 · Post by **eee226** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:26 pm

well cool i guess

CatHat5678 · Post by **CatHat5678** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:51 am

I prefer the adventure series because I find the story line
easier to grasp (in my opinion)

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:55 pm

CatHat5678 wrote:I prefer the adventure series because I find the story line
easier to grasp (in my opinion)

LOL maybe that's because TOW has no storyline.

Blast!10 · Post by **Blast!10** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:41 am

In TOW, all the Rainbow Coins go scattered all over the world (the same thing later happens in RTW).

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:17 pm

The storyline is not very significant in Classic stories

AJQZC · Post by **AJQZC** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:00 am

tyteen4a03 wrote:The storyline is not very significant in Classic stories

Agreed.

Another difference is that the ability of pushing items in the Classic trilogy is replaced by Magical glove power in WA.

janellesnip · Post by **janellesnip** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:47 pm

Dear quick11,
I have to agree with you: the classic series is more pleasant for me to play, for several reasons:
(a) I have thought some more about the save feature: First, in my version there seem to be a total of 7/9 slots for all players. Regardless, this save feature does not make sense for reasons I explained before: Instead of automatically saving wherever a particular player is in the game, the player has all these slots to choose from. I do not know whether this is a necessary feature of the function of being able to save a partially completed level; that is: The following concept would be much simpler for me to grasp: (a) the game saves automatically at the end of each completed level; (b) within any particular level, you can save your progress, but to have only one slot of this -- that is, if I am working on level A, I can save it into slot (X) of partially completed levels; if I skip level A and go to B instead, my partially completed level B still gets saved in (X). This would require a "My Game" slot and an "In Progress" slot for each player. It is way too confusing, especially in WA, to have all these slots. (In Mofi there is at least a picture to go with each level.) It is not only confusing, but useless, also for reasons I explained previously (if I leave off an unfinished level "µ" and go play another level with the same player, there is no way for me to go back to the partially completed level "µ" without losing levels played since having left "µ". .. That is, the feature of being able to save partial levels becomes superfluous.

In addition, the complexity of the game is much too much for me to grasp while still enjoying the game.
One feature I have not figured out in the adventures series is the diamond buttons. They work as switches, meaning each time I step on them a gate (or something) ist turned on or off, opened or closed. But then, there are diamond buttons with a + sign through them -- these seem to be good only once -- why do I need these AND the normal square buttons?
There are also normal circular buttons, and circular buttons with a +. What is the difference? Where is this explained?

The patchwork that makes up the game is ... a lot like real life, but then, I prefer(r)ed an adventure such as King's Quest, where each adventure brings you nearer the goal -- that is, there was an adventure in the well slaying the dragon, and once the dragon is slayed you have something that allows you to go on with the game; or you bring the porridge to the poor man's wife, but you have to know that it is refillable and you have to teach the poor man, who in turn gives you something you need.
The adventures series of Wonderland, on the other hand, has many levels that have not much to do with the story line: you keep rescuing little stinkers, whom you never meet again; you get a bunch of gems, but it is not really important to the outcome of the game whether you have any gems at all (more like an element of "Digger"); you help the crab farmers and race people, but this is just to collect stars -- you never see the farmers again.
This makes it more like life and less like a game. I dislike this more than I like it, because it makes the space I need to "save" the game in my head infringe on the space I need to think about my real life problems. When I play something I would rather have it be more like an "out" time than like virtual reality. . . . I guess this is a matter of preference.

There is also something about the difficulty of the game: too many of the levels, especially in mofi, require me either to spend many days on a level, or to go online for a solution; and since I must solve (or cheat) each level in order to complete the adventure (with few exceptions), and since skipping around is either impossible (equivalent to "worlds closed") or fatal (impossibility of completion due to skipped levels to which I cannot get back), I must go online.
When I am playing I would much rather have a game where I can either solve most levels on my own, or skip around until I get to an internet connection.

Sorry, this is a long rant. I have mostly stopped playing the adventures series. RTW (I have not gotten back to it yet) has enough elements and user-created puzzles to where I do not need something like adventures.

All the same, I like the concept of the game: having ...
Oh, yeah, the number of characters: In WA and WA-MOFI you have only one you, and you play only with you. Other players are static, they have only a static role -- you never get to BE Gaboonga, Wizard, Jaana.... You do not even have a name.
But the concept of having more to the game than escaping dangers to get coins and stars IS something I like.

OK, this has been my longest rant yet on pcpuzzles,
good night,
Janelle

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:54 pm

Speaking of saves, I was playing the original WA and didn't save. I managed to kill myself with Jedlic's door and had to start the game ALL over. WA could use an auto-save feature for hubs.

AJQZC · Post by **AJQZC** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:56 am

janellesnip wrote:In addition, the complexity of the game is much too much for me to grasp while still enjoying the game.
One feature I have not figured out in the adventures series is the diamond buttons. They work as switches, meaning each time I step on them a gate (or something) ist turned on or off, opened or closed. But then, there are diamond buttons with a + sign through them -- these seem to be good only once -- why do I need these AND the normal square buttons?
There are also normal circular buttons, and circular buttons with a +. What is the difference? Where is this explained?

It's actually quite simple: the diamond buttons work as switches alright, but it makes changes to all gates of that colour (and subcolour), such that you can have only one of gates A and B open (if they were of the same colour and subcolour as the button).
The usage of the diamond buttons with a "+" sign is not completely similar to the square buttons, that is, it changes all gates into the other state instead of turning them all "on". Thus, if you have an open gate, pressing the button would close it, and vice versa.

janellesnip · Post by **janellesnip** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:48 pm

Hello AJQZC,
Thank you for your prompt response... colour... subcolour... what is a subcolour? Is there a tutorial on this? I think I am just too stupid for the adventures series, and therefore ought not (to?) have written the comparison. My IQ is in the 130s, but is post brain injury in childhood, so it is not well-rounded, especially in visual perception and recognition (above the 99th percentile in memory of digits; something like the 65th or 70th percentile in picture recognition).

(If someone makes a buttons and gates tutorial, I will download the editor again and learn it that way.)

Thank you,
Janelle

dlcs18 · Post by **dlcs18** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:05 pm

Subcolour is a way to make 2 same-coloured gates actually different when making WA adventures.

A red gate with subcolour 1 will open if there is a red button with subcolour 1, but it won't open if the button is red with any other subcolour, or if the button is any other colour with subcolour 1.

Blink · Post by **Blink** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:38 pm

Wonderland: Fixed movement (grid)

Wonderland Adventures: Fluid motion, ability to wander freely, and ability to purchase items.

There are much more, but those are the main comparisons.

Muzozavr · Post by **Muzozavr** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:37 am

WA is not truly "fluid motion", it's just an illusion created by the more or less seamless textures. Initially fluid pixel-precise motion WAS used, but it turned out to not work well, so the idea was scrapped.

In WA, it's still a grid, the only thing added to the movement is the ability to walk diagonally. You can't walk "half a tile".

The main difference (aside from the "overworld" areas) is actually the fact that you don't PUSH anything in WA (the previous Wonderland games are more or less about pushing stuff, as it's used so often) and instead uses the magic glove system with it's own tricks.

Blink · Post by **Blink** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:30 pm

My mistake: Fluid motion as in diagonal movement. The character is not stuck walking in a linear path, but more of a "freewalking" style.

As it seems, the motion now looks more normal. But you are right, Muzozavr, on the fact that it is not complete fluid motion.

More differences are: Inability to just replay an adventure after you had just finished it without floing (WA), Ability to save almost anywhere in the progress of the game (WA), Ability to talk to other stinkers (WA)

There are much more (I think), but when I finish and analyze both games more closely, I will try to make a complete list.

AJQZC · Post by **AJQZC** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:39 pm

And items, too. There are keys, gems, maps, sunscreens, flowers that you get to use in WA when you can't use them in the Classic trilogy ... wow.

Blink · Post by **Blink** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:13 pm

I finished the video of comparisons, but the file size is HUGE.
I am going to compress it first...

Comparison: Wonderland Adventures and Wonderland Classic

Comparison: Wonderland Adventures and Wonderland Classic

Re: Comparison: Wonderland Adventures and Wonderland Classic

Reply to Quick11

Re: Reply to Quick11

maybe I am too stupid