Off-Topic Area: A suggestion/request

[Marinus]

Tyteen, I'm not quite sure yet what all the PG/G stuff means, but I'll give it a try. Let's see,

- If mommy and daddy are both at work, and the kids are home alone, everything on the forum should be G,
but,
- If mommy or daddy is looking over their kids shoulder, it may be PG,
also
- If we have here a usergroup of 13+ members, and a subforum only accessible for them, we can post there PG13 stuff. (In case of a 18+ group, we can post links to X-rated movies. )

And in the end, the decision what's supposed to be G, PG, and such, that's up to Donald Duck, right?

[Off-topic]That reminds me of a funny story by a Dutch cabaretier, such as a comedian, but actually more funny. Since most of you don't speak Dutch I'll not post the link to it, but I'll try to describe a bit: I hate DD, I hate him veeeeery much! You know why? Because he's always walking in his bare butt. (butt is a good word he? Not PG13 or such, otherwise I say "behind". Or let me say: naked butt, so I can abbreviate it to NB) No matter what he's doing, sitting at home, walking on street, going to a shop or a cinema. When he goes fishing he's suddenly wearing long boots, but still in his NB. EXCEPT, and that's the stupid thing, when he goes swimming! He's suddenly wearing swimming pants then! [/Off-topic]

But seriously, I wonder if Patrick is going to make a 13+ usergroup. Because it's impossible to check if thei're telling their true age. You know, it's easy to click the button: "I'm 13 years or older". A little baby can do it. And even if the kids are honest and ask their parents permission, do you really believe that mommy or daddy is going to look over their kids shoulder all the time they're surfing on internet? So, if we take it strictly, everything should be G? Forget it.

Should be good for now

You know, since the current rule says such as: "Play nice, and remember there are also little kids here on the forum", I have the idea that I've just enough "common sense" to decide what can and what not. But if it depends on Donald Duck...... The whole PG-stuff is just as the dirty brown stuff, "what a bull drops on the ground" to me.

Quote:
About internet safety, I doubt if it's that bad on this forum. Maybe at some obscure other forums.

See above for reply.

I don't quite understand. Are you telling me that this forum is dangerous because Wonderland is a family game? I would just think that other forums are more dangerous.

but the point is kids may become bad without parental guidance.

I was just trying to say that those kids don't really have parental guidence. And I don't believe the kids on this forum are coming to my home with a knife to kill me.

I mean the rule.

I think the rule does make sense. If I would say to you : My friend, while I actually mean: You son of a ... , I think it would be good if I make clear it's meant sarcastic. (But don't worry though, I think you're OK )

the blindfolded girl

Aah, you know how to bring it an exciting way, I like blindfolded girls. But well, I think you're right about that. Everyone needs some common sense, and a thing that doesn't know anything but the difference between 0 and 1, can't really be a judge. However, if you want everything to be described in rules, it seems to me that you want to reduce the need for common sense as far as possible, which means in my opinion, that you also should do that if it's about how many times a rule may be broken in how long time, and after how long time a rule-break may be forgotten. Even more because those things are much easier to decide without using common sense, then to make the decision if a rule is broken or not. (Still I've no idea what tl;dr means but, nevermind)

Opinions from different sides are always good for desicions.

Absolutely!

Also there is a difference on a friendly reminder and backseat modding:
-The whole post is only about what rule you broke
-Reference to punishment decided by you (You should not spam. As a result I am going to tell the mods to ban you)

Not sure if that's just an example or something that really happened. Anyhow, if someone keeps breaking a rule for several times, and I say friendly: Please don't do that, it may not help. But when I try to give a clear explanation that he/she is breaking a rule, and what may happen if he/she continues to do that, (of course not at an angry way) it may have more chance to succeed.

Probably, but the problem would be people who don't bother trying to understand it or don't notice it more than anything else.

I wonder if that's true. I think if people are really interested in Wonderland and this forum it should be no problem. But in case you're right, there always should be things changed with the PHP-software. And I don't know much about that, but maybe Tyteen can tell.

I got the idea that most internet websites are using kooky's. (Yea Kooky is very popular on internet. ) So let's say when a new user comes to this forum, all posts are expanded, just as they are now in the old situation. So, for the new members, nothing changes. Unless they (or we) decide to collapse all posts, and only expand those posts which we want to see again. Well, since Qookie has a great memory, the next time we go to this forum, only the posts we want to see are expanded (including the new ones) and the rest is collapsed. So, if we want to read a topic, and only have the interesting posts visible, instead of scrolling up and down all the time, we have time to.... for example.... eat a cookie!

[tyteen4a03]

Tyteen, I'm not quite sure yet what all the PG/G stuff means, but I'll give it a try. Let's see,

- If mommy and daddy are both at work, and the kids are home alone, everything on the forum should be G,
but,
- If mommy or daddy is looking over their kids shoulder, it may be PG,
also
- If we have here a usergroup of 13+ members, and a subforum only accessible for them, we can post there PG13 stuff. (In case of a 18+ group, we can post links to X-rated movies. )

And in the end, the decision what's supposed to be G, PG, and such, that's up to Donald Duck, right?

Basically what I mean.
(Off-topic: Butt is a PG word.)

But seriously, I wonder if Patrick is going to make a 13+ usergroup. Because it's impossible to check if thei're telling their true age. You know, it's easy to click the button: "I'm 13 years or older". A little baby can do it. And even if the kids are honest and ask their parents permission, do you really believe that mommy or daddy is going to look over their kids shoulder all the time they're surfing on internet? So, if we take it strictly, everything should be G? Forget it.

Should be good for now

You know, since the current rule says such as: "Play nice, and remember there are also little kids here on the forum", I have the idea that I've just enough "common sense" to decide what can and what not. But if it depends on Donald Duck...... The whole PG-stuff is just as the dirty brown stuff, "what a bull drops on the ground" to me.

And again, PG is only a rough rating.

Quote:
About internet safety, I doubt if it's that bad on this forum. Maybe at some obscure other forums.

See above for reply.

I don't quite understand. Are you telling me that this forum is dangerous because Wonderland is a family game? I would just think that other forums are more dangerous.
[/quote]
Because Wonderland forum is a family game, it sounds ovbious to me that there will be kids in this forum, and we are supposed to protect them.

but the point is kids may become bad without parental guidance.

I was just trying to say that those kids don't really have parental guidence. And I don't believe the kids on this forum are coming to my home with a knife to kill me.

Again, that example is only an extreme example to show how bad it could be. I don't believe there will be anyone who will do it, but it's life - we never know.

I mean the rule.

I think the rule does make sense. If I would say to you : My friend, while I actually mean: You son of a ... , I think it would be good if I make clear it's meant sarcastic. (But don't worry though, I think you're OK )

I believe the swear filter is not going to be OK

the blindfolded girl

Aah, you know how to bring it an exciting way, I like blindfolded girls. But well, I think you're right about that. Everyone needs some common sense, and a thing that doesn't know anything but the difference between 0 and 1, can't really be a judge. However, if you want everything to be described in rules, it seems to me that you want to reduce the need for common sense as far as possible, which means in my opinion, that you also should do that if it's about how many times a rule may be broken in how long time, and after how long time a rule-break may be forgotten. Even more because those things are much easier to decide without using common sense, then to make the decision if a rule is broken or not. (Still I've no idea what tl;dr means but, nevermind)

The rules are only a basic defination of do and don'ts. It can go out of date anytime because of the quickly changing internet.

tl;dr used in that way (tl;dr: blah blah blah) means In short.

Also there is a difference on a friendly reminder and backseat modding:
-The whole post is only about what rule you broke
-Reference to punishment decided by you (You should not spam. As a result I am going to tell the mods to ban you)

Not sure if that's just an example or something that really happened. Anyhow, if someone keeps breaking a rule for several times, and I say friendly: Please don't do that, it may not help. But when I try to give a clear explanation that he/she is breaking a rule, and what may happen if he/she continues to do that, (of course not at an angry way) it may have more chance to succeed.

I think that is not a kind of backseat moderating.

Probably, but the problem would be people who don't bother trying to understand it or don't notice it more than anything else.

I wonder if that's true. I think if people are really interested in Wonderland and this forum it should be no problem. But in case you're right, there always should be things changed with the PHP-software. And I don't know much about that, but maybe Tyteen can tell.

I myself is not very familar with phpBB, vBulletin suits me better

Techinically collasping posts may take more time to load if you want your collasp details go when you get online with another computer since it requires additional DB reading (and AJAX, I honstly don't know much about AJAX in action)

If it is not required, then it is possible with HTML+JavaScript. I will have a look in it and see if I can whip up something

I got the idea that most internet websites are using kooky's. (Yea Kooky is very popular on internet. ) So let's say when a new user comes to this forum, all posts are expanded, just as they are now in the old situation. So, for the new members, nothing changes. Unless they (or we) decide to collapse all posts, and only expand those posts which we want to see again. Well, since Qookie has a great memory, the next time we go to this forum, only the posts we want to see are expanded (including the new ones) and the rest is collapsed. So, if we want to read a topic, and only have the interesting posts visible, instead of scrolling up and down all the time, we have time to.... for example.... eat a cookie!

That is actually required in forum softwares IIRC.

[Marinus]

Basically what I mean.
......
And again, PG is only a rough rating.
.....
The rules are only a basic defination of do and don'ts. It can go out of date anytime because of the quickly changing internet.

In that case I think the current rule 2B Objectionable Content will do as well. At least people don't have to search on Wikipedia what's G, PG etc., and they don't have to watch Disney cartoons either. Personally I think that most people have enough "common sense" to know that it's not appropriate on this forum to post a picture of the remains of someone hit by a train at full speed, for example. (In a Disney cartoon, no problem though. Everything is possible, and the characters never die, whatever happens. )

Because Wonderland forum is a family game, it sounds ovbious to me that there will be kids in this forum, and we are supposed to protect them.

I agree. And I think the best way to protect an 18 year old boy who got his driving license yesterday, from having a deadly car accident, is either if he watches one in real life, or if he experiences one himself without casualties, but with lots of fright.

It's impossible to know the difference between good and evil, if you only know what's good. You also need to know a bit what's evil.

About giving personal information or using your own photo as avatar, I would suggest: It's strongly recommended not to do that. If you do it, be sure that you know the possible consequences, and be sure that you really want it. If you're a young child, ask your parents, because it can be dangerous. But in the end it's your own responsibility and it will not cause you to get an official warning or a ban.

I think that is not a kind of backseat moderating.

Oh. Then I must have misunderstood what you mean with it. I thought you meant in general, if one person breaks a rule, another person (not a Mod or such) interferes with it, in public on the forum.

I myself is not very familar with phpBB, vBulletin suits me better ...... That is actually required in forum softwares IIRC.

So, probably it's possible, but it's not going to happen?
[Off-topic]I only know AJAX as the name of a football club: http://english.ajax.nl/web/show

[^_^]

Why did you off-topiced about AJAX?

[Marinus]

Because I think if someone writes a pretty long post, and only a very small part is off-topic, also saying clear that it is off-topic this way:

[off-topic]
blah blah blah
[/off-topic]

Should be not a big problem. But if an entire post is off-topic, it's quite different.

I mentioned AJAX because Tyteen mentioned it, but meaning something else, such as forum-software or internet codes. (not quite sure)

[tyteen4a03]

Because I think if someone writes a pretty long post, and only a very small part is off-topic, also saying clear that it is off-topic this way:

[off-topic]
blah blah blah
[/off-topic]

Should be not a big problem. But if an entire post is off-topic, it's quite different.

I mentioned AJAX because Tyteen mentioned it, but meaning something else, such as forum-software or internet codes. (not quite sure)

AJAX means Asynchorous (sp) JavaScript and (?) XML. This techology involved the handling of database read/write without reloading the page. It is used in Facebook, Google, Yahoo and many other sites. This techology works with PHP, ASP, JSP and many different kinds of languages.

And my interest in football is much less than my interest in programming

[Nobody]

You murdered my cat, MY FRIEND.

(The cat was my friend, not you)

Just a proof to show I've been reading some of these posts.

[Marinus]

A proof that you've been reading some of these posts, or that a sentence can have more then one meaning? Are you talking about #4 of Muzo's rules about sarcasm? Or what?

[tyteen4a03]

A proof that you've been reading some of these posts, or that a sentence can have more then one meaning? Are you talking about #4 of Muzo's rules about sarcasm? Or what?

He is probably talking about the PG rule.

[Midnight Synergy]

.










Alright, so discussion seems to have quieted down on this topic, so let's move ahead.

I need some names of volunteer moderators. Qloof has already volunteered, as have some others (privately). If you wish to be a moderator for Off-Topic, and think you have the "qualifications", send me a PM.

Early next week I will post the names of all "applicants" on and invite (confidential, i.e. not posted on the forum) feedback from users as to the suitability of these candidates. Based on this feedback, I will select 1-3 moderators and "interview" them myself to go through basic guidelines and rules.

If all goes well, moderators should be in place in another week after that.

[^_^]

Can't decide.

[Marinus]

Whoever is going to be moderator, I think everyone should be free to give their opinion about the administrator's / moderator's actions, of course with that condition that they should explain their opinion clear, and not "look", or "talk" angry at each other.

For example: I think if a mod/adm deletes a topic (or let it disappear to some hidden place) will be not the best way to do. Because that way, they are hiding evidence that something was wrong with that topic. However, in some situations it may be necessary to lock a topic (which doesn't hide anything), because otherwise it may happen that lots of people keep posting, and going to act more and more angry, which is not good for this forum and its members.

About who's going to be moderator; well I think there are not much people who are explaining their opinion clear if it's about moderating-things. Some people mentioned Blast, but he is not posting that much that I should have a good opinion about it, neither positive nor negative. Maybe he would be a very good moderator, I don't know.

About Tyteen; (I hope you don't mind that I say this Tyteen) He told me such, that Patrick banned the old Tyteen, but let the new Tyteen come back to the forum. Well in my opinion, the new Tyteen would be a pretty good moderator.

About Billy Bob I have to reconsider my opinion. I still think BB is a good boy who never said a bad word, never be offending or acting angry (as far as I know), but, I actually don't like to say this but, someway I have to agree a little bit with Tyteen, about the robot / computer, and the "common sense", or with other words, a moderator should not only read the letters of a rule, but also understand what's the reason behind a rule, to be able to decide in which case a rule is important, and in which case not.

[tyteen4a03]

Whoever is going to be moderator, I think everyone should be free to give their opinion about the administrator's / moderator's actions, of course with that condition that they should explain their opinion clear, and not "look", or "talk" angry at each other.

You can always talk to the moderator about it (or, if you are scared, other mods or Patrick) in PMs.

About who's going to be moderator; well I think there are not much people who are explaining their opinion clear if it's about moderating-things. Some people mentioned Blast, but he is not posting that much that I should have a good opinion about it, neither positive nor negative. Maybe he would be a very good moderator, I don't know.

Blast!10 has been a old member and is always mature from his actions in forums. He is experienced with forum moderation (3.studIo forums and his own forum, maybe others) so I trust him and am sure that he will make a great mod.

About Tyteen; (I hope you don't mind that I say this Tyteen) He told me such, that Patrick banned the old Tyteen, but let the new Tyteen come back to the forum. Well in my opinion, the new Tyteen would be a pretty good moderator.

Thank you

(BTW I didn't expect you to post it here XD)

[Marinus]

You can always talk to the moderator about it (or, if you are scared, other mods or Patrick) in PMs.

Of course, in PM's but do you know what's my point? If I tell you a story by PM. You read it and then delete it. Then you write that story only from your memory, and send to BB. BB does the same and send it to Q. Q to ^_^, ^_^ to the next one etc. etc. The last one send it back to me and I post my original story on the forum, and the story I received from the last one. Seek the 7 differences.

So for that reason I would like everyone to give their opinion in public to make everything clear. I simply don't trust people who are hiding things on purpose.

(BTW I didn't expect you to post it here XD)

To be honest, I was hesitating if I would say that, because I wasn't sure how you would feel about that, but since I definitely didn't want the "old" Tyteen to be moderator, I thought that I had no choice.

[Midnight Synergy]

Marinus: I definitely think a moderator feedback thread is a good idea, as long as it doesn't turn into a "he said she said" or similar.

(i.e. a place where feedback can be useful to the moderator(s) as well)

[ben-09]

About Billy Bob I have to reconsider my opinion. I still think BB is a good boy who never said a bad word, never be offending or acting angry (as far as I know), but, I actually don't like to say this but, someway I have to agree a little bit with Tyteen, about the robot / computer, and the "common sense", or with other words, a moderator should not only read the letters of a rule, but also understand what's the reason behind a rule, to be able to decide in which case a rule is important, and in which case not.

Yeah, Billy Bob doesn't seem to understand the concept of common sense.

[Qloof234]

About Billy Bob I have to reconsider my opinion. I still think BB is a good boy who never said a bad word, never be offending or acting angry (as far as I know), but, I actually don't like to say this but, someway I have to agree a little bit with Tyteen, about the robot / computer, and the "common sense", or with other words, a moderator should not only read the letters of a rule, but also understand what's the reason behind a rule, to be able to decide in which case a rule is important, and in which case not.

Yeah, Billy Bob doesn't seem to understand the concept of common sense.

I wouldn't put it that harshly - He has a different way of thinking to most of us, which seems to be a byproduct of him not ever going to school. As a result, the reason that we get at odds with him sometimes is because of our different ways of receiving and interpreting information.

[Marinus]

I agree with Qloof, but also I understand Ben. And I would like to say that it's very hard, or maybe impossible to give a clear definition / description what "common sense" exactly means. At least I'm not able to, and I didn't see people who are able to.

Patrick, I'm glad that you like the idea, and here I have another one. I think it may be good to make a rule which says not to make more then one new topic in a week, especially for younger people who just joined the forum, or just came back from a few months being banned.

[billy bob]

...him not ever going to school.

I did go to school (never again). Do you mean "...stopped going to school."?

[Qloof234]

...him not ever going to school.

I did go to school (never again). Do you mean "...stopped going to school."?

Oh, I thought you never did, sorry.

[Midnight Synergy]

(I did also mention that I'd prefer people's discussion about potential moderators to be in PMs to me (or each other, if you like) - I think airing a bunch of opinions about this matter in public will get out of hand quickly)

[Marinus]

Patrick, I think I understand what you mean, but I don't 100% agree with you. You know some of us are autistic, other people have only one leg or one eye. There may be also people who are very intelligent, but have not a very good memory, which means they are clever but they don't know much.

Anyhow, I think most of us will accept and respect each other, how different we all may be. Therefore it should be no problem if we give our opinion in public, as long as nobody starts to act angry.

I guess you already know why I don't like private talking; because people may misunderstand each other. A and B can send you both a PM, telling their opinion about C, but they are not able to give their opinions about the otherone 's opinion.

[Nobody]

...him not ever going to school.

I did go to school (never again). Do you mean "...stopped going to school."?

Oh, I thought you never did, sorry.

No, that's me. Although I probably think differently too.

[popo]

I've been reading this thread with a certain amount of interest, and it seems to me that the lunatics are taking over the asylum. The whole board is gradually turning into a children's playground. If I was just joining the forum for the first time and saw what was on it I think it would put me off. Maybe the off topic area could be hidden to all but those who wish to join in with it. That way they could still have their fun, and the whole board would look tidier. And then any moderators could only have access to the details of members who want to be part of the off topic area (if that's possible). My main concern is that I don't want my email address to be visible to any moderators, especially those who are only just out of nappies.

[Qloof234]

My main concern is that I don't want my email address to be visible to any moderators, especially those who are only just out of nappies.

I have no idea if that was directed at me or the people asking to be moderators, but... well, I feel rather offended now because of that, to be perfectly honest, because it makes me feel as if you're generalizing that description to everyone who has several posts in the off-topic area.

To clarify, I do generally have to agree with the forum turning into a "children's playground" of sorts - the amount of more serious topics is diminishing very rapidly, and then we have the Off-Topic section which has maybe... four or five serious topics on the front page.

I don't know anything about phpBB, but I have no idea how easy making moderators only capable of seeing certain user credentials is. Hiding the off-topic section and making it accessible only to those who are interested would be relatively simple, I believe.

[popo]

Sorry if I offended you Qloof, it wasn't directed at you personally. What I meant was that those wanting to be moderators seem to be kids, and we all know that a lot of kids don't have the same sense as most adults when it comes to online security. Patrick has said not to post email addresses directly but some of you still do it. So I'm just concerned that my email address will end up on someone's system and be made available, whether knowingly or not, to spammers.

I have trusted this site for so long knowing Patrick is a responsible person. I don't think I'd trust it knowing kids had access to my information. Sorry if that upsets anyone but that's how I feel.

[Marinus]

Pauline, it's easy to make a new email address by Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo or what so more, to use especially in those situations you're afraid of spam. Also changing your email address in your profile is to be done in a minute.

And in the end, having a little bit faith in humanity shouldn't be wrong.

[Qloof234]

Pauline, it's easy to make a new email address by Hotmail, Gmail, Yahoo or what so more, to use especially in those situations you're afraid of spam. Also changing your email address in your profile is to be done in a minute.

I'd recommend not to - on my old account, I switched my e-mail over, and it never came through, so I had to re-register under my current account.

[^_^]

Sorry if I offended you Qloof, it wasn't directed at you personally. What I meant was that those wanting to be moderators seem to be kids, and we all know that a lot of kids don't have the same sense as most adults when it comes to online security. Patrick has said not to post email addresses directly but some of you still do it. So I'm just concerned that my email address will end up on someone's system and be made available, whether knowingly or not, to spammers.

I have trusted this site for so long knowing Patrick is a responsible person. I don't think I'd trust it knowing kids had access to my information. Sorry if that upsets anyone but that's how I feel.

I am afraid to say this but...
You can also type random guys email.
Example: >example@gmail.com<
But i don't ever do it.

[Qloof234]

Sorry if I offended you Qloof, it wasn't directed at you personally. What I meant was that those wanting to be moderators seem to be kids, and we all know that a lot of kids don't have the same sense as most adults when it comes to online security. Patrick has said not to post email addresses directly but some of you still do it. So I'm just concerned that my email address will end up on someone's system and be made available, whether knowingly or not, to spammers.

I have trusted this site for so long knowing Patrick is a responsible person. I don't think I'd trust it knowing kids had access to my information. Sorry if that upsets anyone but that's how I feel.

I am afraid to say this but...
You can also type random guys email.
Example: >example@gmail.com<
But i don't ever do it.

Except you can't, because last time I checked you needed A) an e-mail to activate your account through, and/or B) to send an e-mail to MS telling him why you think he should activate your account.