WA3 Update Thread

Yzfm · Post by **Yzfm** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:47 pm

I wonder how much is patrick done with WA3??

I mwould say 69%, or maybe 60%..

Technos72 · Post by **Technos72** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:45 am

I think it's lower...

Yzfm · Post by **Yzfm** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:47 am

Technos72 wrote:I think it's lower...

maybe even 50%, but not lower than that IMHO

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:48 am

For the last time, MS is still working on the gameplay elements. Adventure designing hasn't started yet, so I'd say it's only about 5% done.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:21 am

MyNameIsKooky wrote:For the last time, MS is still working on the gameplay elements. Adventure designing hasn't started yet, so I'd say it's only about 5% done.

How can you say for certain that adventures haven't been designed? Just because he's still working on gameplay elements?

I don't think it's very far along, to be honest, but even if the gameplay's not completely refined, he could still be working on adventures and the like himself.

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:31 am

Qloof234 wrote:
MyNameIsKooky wrote:For the last time, MS is still working on the gameplay elements. Adventure designing hasn't started yet, so I'd say it's only about 5% done.
How can you say for certain that adventures haven't been designed? Just because he's still working on gameplay elements?

He hasn't elected any adventure designers for POTZ yet. He elected designers for MOFI, and he mentioned that there would be even more community involvement for WA3.

Qloof234 wrote:but even if the gameplay's not completely refined, he could still be working on adventures and the like himself.

Considering how busy with non-WA things he has appeared to be, I find that doubtful.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:02 am

He doesn't necessarily need to get other people to make adventures, he's just as capable. It'd be a lot of work, I'm not trying to say that it's simple at all or anything.

I'm expecting him to elect adventure designers for PoTZ as well, and I expect it's still very very early in development as well, I'm just commenting that even if he hasn't gotten any designers from the community he could've started making adventures/hubs/stuff on his own.

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:06 am

Qloof234 wrote:He doesn't necessarily need to get other people to make adventures, he's just as capable. It'd be a lot of work, I'm not trying to say that it's simple at all or anything.

I'm expecting him to elect adventure designers for PoTZ as well, and I expect it's still very very early in development as well, I'm just commenting that even if he hasn't gotten any designers from the community he could've started making adventures/hubs/stuff on his own.

Yeah, but it wouldn't really make sense for him to start designing before he elects the designers. Things would be done sooner if he was finishing up the gameplay elements, which I assume he's doing now. Or maybe I'm wrong. We'll see soon, I guess.

Dark Drago · Post by **Dark Drago** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:15 am

Emerald141 wrote:
ab-47 wrote:it's been almost two weeks since our last update...
Be patient. All the recent updates have been two or three weeks apart anyway, and considering what everyone thinks the next update will be, I think we can afford to wait a little longer.

You got internet in camping too?

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:01 pm

I thought I'd post a few notes on my progress, so that folks don't have to endlessly speculate about every detail. Just most of them.

Almost all of the gameplay elements are in place and have been in place for some time. Because of the on-again-off-again nature of this project, I've had to work myself back into the game a few times, making changes/adjustments (and, hopefully, improvements) a few times. Right now, I think it's almost all set. Off hand, I can think of 3 more elements I wish to add.

The editor is pretty much final - although there haven't been many changes since WAMOFI. Anyone expecting a complete redesign of the editor will sadly be disappointed.

Since the beginning of summer, I have also started doing some first actual adventures (to help finalize the new gameplay mechanism). I have about a dozen adventures completed by now. I'm also planning out the Hub and the specifics of the story. While the vague nature of the story was in my head four years ago, it's now time to make sure all the details fit with the previous games, and make this finale grand and fitting.

I'm not sure yet when and how (and possibly "if") I will get other level designers and board. I will continue for a while on my own, certainly until the hub and the main set of adventures are completed. This will be at least another month or two.

Thank you all for being so patient. I hope the end result will make it all worthwhile!

llarson · Post by **llarson** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:04 pm

YAY!

Can't wait for the editor (Trust me I won't get dissapointed if I has enough sugar like a few hours ago

).
EDIT: Can we still make hubs with it or is that out ?
EDIT2: 1 one or 2 two MONTHS

Patrick you finally made me hyper without sugar

.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:06 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote:I thought I'd post a few notes on my progress, so that folks don't have to endlessly speculate about every detail. Just most of them.

I love developers like you, who do stuff like this.

Midnight Synergy wrote:Almost all of the gameplay elements are in place and have been in place for some time. Because of the on-again-off-again nature of this project, I've had to work myself back into the game a few times, making changes/adjustments (and, hopefully, improvements) a few times. Right now, I think it's almost all set. Off hand, I can think of 3 more elements I wish to add.

Sounds good. Out of curiosity, roughly how many new elements are in the game? I'm not asking for specifics as to what they do, just how many new toys we can expect.

If you'd rather not answer, that's perfectly fine.

Midnight Synergy wrote:The editor is pretty much final - although there haven't been many changes since WAMOFI. Anyone expecting a complete redesign of the editor will sadly be disappointed.

To be honest, I'm glad there aren't too many big changes. The WA/MoFI editor is a bit difficult to learn, but personally I actually find it really intuitive once you've learned how to use it.

Might be a bit of an obvious question, but can we expect major bugfixes (i.e. crashes)? Like I've said before, the "click-below-level" crash is really irritating, so I'm still wondering if there's a chance of seeing that fixed.

Midnight Synergy wrote:Since the beginning of summer, I have also started doing some first actual adventures (to help finalize the new gameplay mechanism). I have about a dozen adventures completed by now. I'm also planning out the Hub and the specifics of the story. While the vague nature of the story was in my head four years ago, it's now time to make sure all the details fit with the previous games, and make this finale grand and fitting.

"Mechanism"? As in singular?

How many adventures are you planning to have in the final game? Once again, if you'd rather keep it secret, then by all means...

Midnight Synergy wrote:I'm not sure yet when and how (and possibly "if") I will get other level designers and board. I will continue for a while on my own, certainly until the hub and the main set of adventures are completed. This will be at least another month or two.

I suppose part of it depends on how expansive the game's going to be. If it's as large as (or larger than) MoFI, I think it'd be a good idea to get external help, as that would be a lot of work to do on your own.

Midnight Synergy wrote:Thank you all for being so patient. I hope the end result will make it all worthwhile!

Oh, we're not patient. We're just good at pretending.

Fluffshery · Post by **Fluffshery** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:22 pm

MS, was that the something a little "different" or a completely unrelated post because of our speculation? Either way, it still made me excited for PotZ! I was just wondering.

jdl · Post by **jdl** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:24 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote:The editor is pretty much final - although there haven't been many changes since WAMOFI. Anyone expecting a complete redesign of the editor will sadly be disappointed.

I'm not exactly sure what to think after reading this regarding Hubs, however I'm sure that whatever decision you make will be for the best. An updated editor in itself is something to look forward to and I'm not going to be disappointed if something I wanted isn't there.

Midnight Synergy wrote:Thank you all for being so patient. I hope the end result will make it all worthwhile!

It definitely will be for me. Thank you for continuing to create my favorite game series of all time.

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:51 pm

Quick answers:

# of Gameplay elements? I won't count them, but many!

No idea yet on # of levels, but certainly in the 100-star range again.

Also "mechanic" was a wrong term, I meant "gameplay elements".

Editor errors? I should fix those, but haven't yet. At some point I'll need to ask you what they actually are.

And no, this isn't the "different" update I mentioned, that's still coming.

TheThaumaturge · Post by **TheThaumaturge** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:59 pm

I like speculating, but the facts still beat it anyway. I'm glad to know that most of the new stuff included in POTZ is already done!

I actually preferred that the editor was kept somewhat the same. I've already become used to it and it isn't that hard for me to use anymore. Although adding a Hub function would be cool.

Patience brings the best rewards, so don't worry Patrick. I'm sure POTZ will be an excellent game!

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:48 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote:Quick answers:

# of Gameplay elements? I won't count them, but many! No idea yet on # of levels, but certainly in the 100-star range again.

Also "mechanic" was a wrong term, I meant "gameplay elements".

Ah, I see. I thought you were possibly referring to Indigo's time-travel-magic thing (I'm assuming that's still the plan, but I don't think you should tell us what it is if it's been changed

)

Midnight Synergy wrote:Editor errors? I should fix those, but haven't yet. At some point I'll need to ask you what they actually are.

Personally, two big ones come to mind.

First off, the south-level crash I've been moaning about. If the user clicks south of the level border whilst editing, the Editor crashes with the old MAV error we're all used to. I'm assuming part of this is to do with the level's size, but it doesn't happen if the player clicks east of the border (if the player does that, it acts like they put a wall there as if it was in valid space - they can right-click to pick up a block from east of the border). Can be frustrating in some cases - It bugs me because sometimes I'll be working on scenery for an adventure, trying to change a bunch of Wall styles (Jagged/Rounded all the way), and accidentally click beneath the level.

Second off, the dialog/interchange bug. The first byte in a dialog (.dia) file counts the number of interchanges (I'm fairly sure it's interchanges? Or separate text blocks, perhaps?), allowing the Editor and Game to work out where text goes properly. If the value increases to above 101, the Editor spits out an Array Index Out Of Bounds error and crashes (for that matter, it does that if a level's size is set to larger than 101 as well). The problem here is that the Dialog Editor increases the interchange counter by one whenever the user saves, regardless of if they've made any changes to the dialog or not.

For instance, if the player has a dialog file with only one interchange/answer in it, the value should be 01 (I believe that's correct, can't recall). If they open it, then save and exit the dialog editor, the value will be incremented to 02 anyways. While it's probably not going to be a commonly experienced bug, this can make spellchecking dialogs or writing long dialogs painful.

If the user forces the byte value down via a Hex Editor, it messes with the text format quite a lot (interchanges might end up being pushed into askabouts/responses, etc.).

There are numerous smaller ones as well. One that comes to mind (though this could be used for some fiendish puzzles) is that Gates don't have a limit on SubColor - They can be set higher than 4, and go negative as well. Another would be that when the user clicks a dialog/level to open, if they hover their cursor over another number before it loads, it'll open the one the cursor's over (e.g. if I open level 1, then move my cursor over level 2 while it's loading, it'll open level 2).

Also, the infamous flip-glitch. It's really useful, though, can create some really clever puzzles.

Midnight Synergy wrote:And no, this isn't the "different" update I mentioned, that's still coming.

Oooh, really? Excitement.

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:03 pm

Midnight Synergy wrote:I'm not sure yet when and how (and possibly "if") I will get other level designers and board. I will continue for a while on my own, certainly until the hub and the main set of adventures are completed. This will be at least another month or two.

Perhaps you could have potential designers send you sample levels for you to review, then you can decide if the designer is "worthy," like you did for MOFI? There's a few adventure designers in the Custom Adventures section who have been pretty hyped up for this for a while. If you elect designers, I'd imagine you'd be able to at least double this game's size.

Like everyone else said, I'll be looking forward to WA3's end result.

Master Wonder Mage · Post by **Master Wonder Mage** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:18 pm

BUT I NEED TIME!!!

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:23 pm

Master Wonder Mage wrote:BUT I NEED TIME!!!

Oh, you silly, silly man! You have plenty of time! MS said it will certainly be a month or two before he begins electing designers, assuming that he'll want to do that.

Master Wonder Mage · Post by **Master Wonder Mage** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:34 pm

Oh, I thought you meant right now. And WHY IS EVERYTHING YOU SAY ALWAYS SO FUNNY???!?!

llarson · Post by **llarson** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:00 am

MyNameIsKooky wrote:
Master Wonder Mage wrote:BUT I NEED TIME!!!
Oh, you silly, silly man! You have plenty of time! MS said it will certainly be a month or two before he begins electing designers, assuming that he'll want to do that.

I thought potz was going to come out in a few months for some reason

. Yea I'm pretty crazy.

Post by **Midnight Synergy** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:46 am

Here's "something different":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gFS6OOACn4

tyteen4a03 · Post by **tyteen4a03** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:59 am

Looks really cool!

(and the bedroom's neat

)

MyNameIsKooky · Post by **MyNameIsKooky** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:05 am

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAA. I'm really excited now!

Even after almost ten years, Wonderland is still going. And it's still getting better and better with every game. I just wanted to say, thank you MS for sticking with this series for so long!

NOW ONTO POINTLESS SPECULATION. There seemed to be really thin gate thingies near the rotating purple Cuboid. I guess it's a "wall version" of the flame traps or something, since they both seemed to be activated and deactivated at different intervals.

EDIT: Wait, no. They seem more like the Tentacles from MOFI.

Qloof234 · Post by **Qloof234** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:10 am

Midnight Synergy wrote:Here's "something different":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gFS6OOACn4

I love you

Fluffshery · Post by **Fluffshery** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:39 am

Midnight Synergy wrote:Here's "something different":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gFS6OOACn4

That was... amazing!!!

ab-47 · Post by **ab-47** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:19 am

How Interesting.

Fluffshery · Post by **Fluffshery** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:39 am

Remember Picture 2, the WIP one, how there was that scritter texture on that weird flat thing? I bet that's what the thin gates are, just they now have a better texture.

Yzfm · Post by **Yzfm** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:18 am

Unbelievable!!

Suction tubes?? they look a lot like springs!!

Keep up the great work!!